EP results

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48417228

Nice to see that the ALDE will play a decisive role in European policies. The leading opposition group will be the Greens... imo it's good news that climate change and environmental policies will be one of the major focuses of parliamentary debate over the next 5 years.

Well, just look at the numbers:
In Germany, the Greens have gained 10 percentage points and achieved almost 21% of the vote. In Europe at large, the Greens have achieved just 8.9% of the vote, with a modest gain of 2 percentage points.


Since climate change is the "single most important challenge that all of us face in the forseeable future", and since it affects every European and not just us Germans, one would have expected larger gains for the Greens across Europe if the urgency of the climate situation was really the leading factor.
The reason for the outstanding result of the German Greens has to be something specific to Germany, something that wasnt present elsewhere. Frustration with the conservatives and social democrats was felt all across Europe, but elsewhere, it was not the Greens who benefitted from it nearly as much as here in Germany. Hence, it has to be the massive media support for the agenda of the Greens, which is the only factor which was truly specific to Germany and can explain the specific strength of our Greens.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on May 26 2019 04:49pm

Uh, I dont know about that. According to the projections I am looking at, the Greens will reach 8.9%. The three right-wing factions, which range from EU-sceptics to outright enemies of the EU, have a combined result of 22.9%.

In an environment where the anti-EU forces are that strong and where the 3 traditional big groups (conservatives, socialists, liberals) will have to form a grand grand coalition to reach a majority, I think the dominating conflict over the coming years will be between pro-EU and pro-integration forces on the one side, and anti-EU forces on the other side.

Also, the migration and the euro crises have been relatively calm in recent months, but they are totally absolutely NOT solved, and can become urgent again at any moment.


Yes, how to deal with climate change will be one of the major topics of the coming legislative term, as it should be, but I dont think it will completely dominate the debates; and I'm very sure that it's gonnal be the right-wingers and not the Greens who will be the dominating opposition in this European parliament, for better or worse.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on May 26 2019 04:50pm

ah right, it's always a great media conspiracy with you guys. it can't be the greens' focus on an issue that other parties don't address sufficiently while it's regarded as extremely important by a majority of people here in germany, it just HAS to be 'the media'.
i wonder how you explain the afd's success then. isn't your narrative that the media conspires AGAINST you? so how does that work exactly? when it's something you personally subscribe to it's the issue that makes people vote for a party, no matter how hard the evil media tries to discredit them with totally untrue accusations, but when it's something you're 'sceptical' of, the same media has the power to double a party's results? sorry, but that is simply ridiculous...

This post was edited by fender on May 26 2019 05:03pm

well, frustration votes and voting for what one deems the most important challenge we face is something that the left always condemns when it results in voting for a right wing party....just saying

the greens have literally nothing to offer except the climate topic, their front personnel is openly anti german and most importantly, their plans certainly wont "save" the climate (you know my stance on the matter, no need to discuss it again)
their leaders state in public that you can accumulate electricity in the supply system and that every german produces several gigatons of carbon dioxide per year (yeah i can give you the links if you have missed that, that baerbock woman truly is a genius)

the completely retarded fearmongering and panic from the green party has led to germany abandoning the only form of energy production that is able to provide the base load and is emission free at the same time (great job)
their followers violenty protest against coal while a few kilometres away forests are destroyed to build wind turbines that have a questionable efficiency at best and a massive impact on the environment around them (dead insects, birds to name one example)

i think your argument is correct, many have turned to the green party for that reason, but in reality they should have voted for the CDU/CSU instead

they acknowledge the problem and have a somewhat realistic stance on the matter AND their government, as bad as it is, has done a lot in recent years
voting for incompetent morons from the green party to deindustrialize germany and surrender our money to europe certainly wont help anyone

or in short, i dont think most of the people you talk about would vote for the greens if they had an idea what the enforcement of their program actually means



thats not correct

a conspiracy is something secret, the german media openly campaigns against everyone even slightly right of angela merkel
they have thrown all neutrality overboard to spread a narrative and not information

as already pointed out, the selection of guests in the most watched politics talks shows that
the greens get several times as many invitations as the largest opposition party in our parliament

the media has given the greens the stage they deny others

to be fair, that would also apply to the liberals

This post was edited by ampoo on May 26 2019 05:11pm

highlighted just some of the ridiculous outright propaganda talking points.
it's also amusing to hear from someone who votes for a party with members that openly and unapologeticly marginalise nazi crimes argue that you can not support a party where members made some stupid statements that they later corrected or that the party as such does not share.

and no, the cdu's record on climate change is horrible - they might look like they're addressing the topic from a perspective of science deniers and 'sceptics', and apologists like yourself, but in reality they are a huge obstacle to meaningful change.

Again: climate change affects all Europeans, and the political competition in other European countries is just as tone-deaf and inapt at addressing climate change as here in Germany. Nonetheless, the German Greens have achieved a result which far exceeds that of other European Green parties.
Why is that? Why do you think that more people in Germany than anywhere else in Europe consider cimate change to be an extremely important topic? Do you think that Germany just has a singular predisposition to fear climate change that none of our neighbors shares? No! The only thing related to the climate change debate where Germany really differs from all its neighbors is the degree to which our media pushes this partiuclar topic and the Green party.





actually, the afd's result is quite disappointing. below the last polls before the election, below the result they got at the last national election in 2017, "just" a gain of 3.7 percentage points compared to the last EP election in 2014, which was before the migration crisis.

to be fair, I think the reason for this disappointing result is that the main topics of the AfD (migration, euro) were just not as urgent this time around. the media certainly didnt help the AfD by their selection of topics and feature stories, and perhaps the Ibiza-scandal of their sister party FPÖ in Austria hurt them a little, but the main reason imho is that it just wasnt the time for "their" topics.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on May 26 2019 05:16pm

i was hoping you weren't going to insist on that 'point' because it's such an obvious logic fail, but ok, here we go:
there is a multitude of reasons that can and does explain the difference of any nation's green party success compared to their european result, from national conversations being dominated by other topics (and you don't have to introduce some nefarious press bias to explain that - btw, what does 'the media' get in return for their evil pushing of the green agenda?) to structural differences (climate change being addressed sufficiently by other parties for example, or green parties having literally no tradition or even representation to speak of in some member states) - your conclusion that the only difference is media representation is outright false, and your reasoning simply lacks causality. it honestly is a complete mess of an argument to make, seriously...





it might be disappointing considering previous gains, but if you consider the strache scandal and the fact that you still gained, despite the all powerful media working against you, it directly contradicts your narrative that the gains of the greens are purely media driven. you can't have it both ways...

This post was edited by fender on May 26 2019 05:47pm

"ridiculous outright propaganda talking points"

are you living under a rock? already forgot about "germany you piece of shit" claudia roth? among other open germany haters like fischer, özdemir etc



so denying the existence of "german people" is not anti german?
and i just drop this infamous quote from the same guy in german: „Vaterlandsliebe fand ich stets zum Kotzen. Ich wußte mit Deutschland nichts anzufangen und weiß es bis heute nicht.“
the greens want to abolish our budget sovereignty and promote the united states of europe

how much more anti german can you possibly be?
you call it propaganda, i suggest you actually stop being a lazy smartass,because its in their fucking program
says it all really, you try to dismiss my arguments despite them not even coming from me

you completely dodged the point about the complete incompetence of that party and of course the regular climate denial accusations despite my remark that this is not what this is about

the cdu record is not terrible by itself, they have been investing hundreds of billions (in a stupid way of course) into renewable energy with borderline socialist measures
thats its still not good enough proves my point, the way we do it will NEVER work
not to mention that the cdu policy has been heavily influenced by the green party in a pathetic attempt to get votes

so we already have a "green light" policy and look how ridiculous the results are....is more of that going to help? i am sorry for those who believe that
to be fair, their task has been impossible so i wont blame them for that

and since you marked my comment about the deindustrialization, are you really that ignorant to ignore the fact that their policy will lead to just that?
you cant run a nation like germany with that energy policy without destroying our industry, its already suffering big time and the power supply has dodged collapse just barely several times by now

we live in a country where the BASF ludwigshafen complex alone needs as much electricity as the entire state of denmark
still waiting for a argument how the moronic greens plan to provide that 24/7 365 days a year without problems (well because they cant)

please tell me where exactly the propaganda is? where?

p.s: i know you will reply with some quote from gauland or höcke.....not related so spare me
answer directly to that point

This post was edited by ampoo on May 26 2019 05:50pm