that you?

If the position is that a fetus' right to life trumps the woman's right to bodily autonomy, then why should the method of conception matter? Do you think that people who are born of rape have less value to society than those who are born from consensual sex? Does the trauma give you some sort of additional rights that normal women birthing humans don't have access to?

Also, Mississippi's abortion cut-off is significantly more progressive than Germany's on paper so I don't really see what the issue is.

This post was edited by thundercock on Dec 6 2021 04:07pm

Christ on a cracker that guys a lunatic.

What if the person didn't want their own picture. It's not someone else snatching the picture away, it's the individual who took the picture's choice to destroy their picture.

I don't understand that guy's analogy that he's trying to use.

you don't want to tell me this is the first time you've been exposed to the fact that many anti-choicers (i'd guess a solid majority) are fine with exceptions for rape, incest, and severe medical complications?! i refuse to believe you're THAT ignorant on this issue.

that said, the argument that duff and icemage make certainly IS the more consistent one. in fact, i explicitly asked them about it, and acknowledged that within their weird fundamentalist framework, it's the logical conclusion. obviously, it's also more radical, cruel, ideologically and religiously blinded, removed from reality... but yeah, definitely more consistent to go FULL taliban on women's rights.



the analogy is as insane and ridiculous as his whole speech. he makes crazy televangelists look reasonable in comparison. that's why religion and state shouldn't mix, you'll have extremists and crazies shaping your laws...

Not all of us place as little value on human life as you do fender. Why do you support the killing of humans in large numbers?

first of all, i simply don't consider a cygote / embryo a person. a pregnant woman most definitely is though, and the state has no right to tell her what to do with her body.

also, i mentioned in several posts in this thread that i'm very much in favour of fewer abortions - especially those done for economic / relationship / time issues - that's why i'm a strong proponent of comprehensive sex education, accessible healthcare, laws protecting families, and an overhaul of the adoption system - all measures that would ACTUALLY lead to fewer abortions, and would NOT take women's rights away.

i know you're just trying to project your cruel, fundamentalist bullshit onto me, but you could at least put SOME kind of effort into it, not just blatantly lie about my position.

It's consistent from a perspective that the right to life is sacrosanct, regardless of stage, but Americans actually have fairly complex views on abortion. Many people come at it from a perspective that actions have consequences and you shouldn't kill the fetus for something that you voluntarily engaged in. That's why they are okay with abortion when it comes to rape. Some people think that viability should be the standard because they value sentience. Some radicals support unrestricted abortion up until birth because they value bodily autonomy above all things. Ultimately though, there isn't much to debate because the two sides (if you want just narrow it to two sides) are speaking completely different languages. If you see no value in a fetus, you will never understand the "pro-life" side. Likewise, if you're unable to empathize with a pregnant woman, you will never understand the "pro-choice" side.

Im not talking about arbitrary notions of personhood that changes over centuries. Im talking about human life. Basic biology tells us human life begins at conception. Do you deny that abortion is the killing of a human being?

do tell, how does basic biology say life begins at conception.

Any embryo becomes a fetus at around the 8th week though and a significant amount of abortions occur after that. Why do you support fewer abortions if you don't place any value on the zygote/embryo/fetus? Why does the number of abortions matter?