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Jan 27 2020 10:19am
Quote (theCrossbones @ Jan 27 2020 10:38am)
The fact that you always reference Fox as a NEWS source tells me all i need to know.
If you are REALLY talking about being truthful as a political figure. Just request tRump to be removed NOW. you are either for people speaking the truth or NOT.
Sorry tRump lies more than any pres. in history. again cult like.


You unironically refer to the Senate Majority Leader as "Moscow Mitch". You're really not in a position to criticize anyone's media preferences.
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Jan 27 2020 10:24am
Quote (bogie160 @ 27 Jan 2020 17:19)
You unironically refer to the Senate Majority Leader as "Moscow Mitch". You're really not in a position to criticize anyone's media preferences.


Moscow Mitch or Midnight Mitch ?
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Jan 27 2020 12:26pm
Quote (bogie160 @ 27 Jan 2020 15:11)
I agree. I want to hear from Biden too.


And if you can bring Biden to any kind of trial then you should hear from witnesses on whatever crime he gets accused of. But your whataboutism is fucking moot here and your partisanship is showing.

Your republican senators are denying you a fair trial. They are making a mockery of your vote. You should be angry as fuck.
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Jan 27 2020 12:26pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Jan 27 2020 05:34am)
If this were a fact finding mission instead of a partisan spectacle, maybe. Schiff was a poor choice for manager if that was the goal, he has been hiding information, promoting conspiracies, and lying since day one. It's hard for anyone to take this process seriously.

We don't want the executive branch any less powerful than it is
. Congress is permanently dysfunctional, and Schumer, McConnell, and Pelosi all have worse favourables than Trump. The President has a more active role than ever in setting policy and executing change.


Um, I absolutely do. I saw how Obama abused it and it's only going to get worse if you get someone like Harris in there (who said she would abuse it). Congress needs to grow some balls and learn how to take hard votes. They need to listen to their constituents less and not be swayed so easily by popular opinion.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 26 2020 09:34pm)
The true issue underlying all of this is that the consitution doesnt give Congress appropriate tools to deal with norm-breaking by presidents in nuanced fashion. The gap between a meaningless censure and the frenzied impeachment process, which by its nature always comes with hyperpartisanship, is just too big.

The present case is very clear if you ask me: Trump did engage in misconduct, and there is plenty of evidence for it. But at the same time, the misconduct quite clearly does not nearly rise to the level of being worthy of removing a democratically elected president from office over it. One could argue that Trump being impeached but remaining in office amounts to this kind of more severe punishment, but the price is just too high in terms of the collateral damage this circus inflicts on the country's democratic culture and institutions


Indeed. My hope is that if Biden wins, he'll at least start the conversation of reigning in executive power. Anyway, you're of the opinion that it doesn't meet a particular threshold. I'm of the opinion that we hit that threshold when well over 50% of the population wanted to at least start the process. Unfortunately, one side decided to embarrass themselves by blindly supporting the President regardless of the facts. The other side, while they ran a flawed process, were at least interested in finding the facts. Were there ulterior motives? Absolutely. If the shoe were on the other foot, would a plurality of them support the President. Most likely. But that shouldn't matter IMO.
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Jan 27 2020 12:37pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Jan 27 2020 07:34am)
If this were a fact finding mission instead of a partisan spectacle, maybe. Schiff was a poor choice for manager if that was the goal, he has been hiding information, promoting conspiracies, and lying since day one. It's hard for anyone to take this process seriously.

We don't want the executive branch any less powerful than it is. Congress is permanently dysfunctional, and Schumer, McConnell, and Pelosi all have worse favourables than Trump. The President has a more active role than ever in setting policy and executing change.


so you like the creep in executive branch power via the executive orders under Bush2, Obama, and Trump?

i agree the ineffectual legislature is both bad and here to stay, but how does expanding EO's do anything to address that? if anything it gives them a pass and makes changeover between POTUS whiteshouses, especially on left to right or vice versa flips, much worse.
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Jan 27 2020 12:40pm
Quote (MxVivianWulf @ Jan 27 2020 01:26pm)
And if you can bring Biden to any kind of trial then you should hear from witnesses on whatever crime he gets accused of. But your whataboutism is fucking moot here and your partisanship is showing.

Your republican senators are denying you a fair trial. They are making a mockery of your vote. You should be angry as fuck.


Whether there's reasonable cause to investigate Biden for corruption is incredibly relevant to the allegations against Trump.

The Senate is preventing Schiff, a compulsive liar, from continuing what is a disgraceful charade. Why on earth would I be angry? They're faithfully representing the interests of the voters who put them in office.
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Jan 27 2020 12:43pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Jan 27 2020 10:40am)
Whether there's reasonable cause to investigate Biden for corruption is incredibly relevant to the allegations against Trump.

The Senate is preventing Schiff, a compulsive liar, from continuing what is a disgraceful charade. Why on earth would I be angry? They're faithfully representing the interests of the voters who put them in office.


The DOJ is more than capable of doing this. But we all know why the DOJ hasn't done anything and Trump decided to use a back-channel instead.
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Jan 27 2020 12:45pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Jan 27 2020 12:40pm)
Whether there's reasonable cause to investigate Biden for corruption is incredibly relevant to the allegations against Trump.

The Senate is preventing Schiff, a compulsive liar, from continuing what is a disgraceful charade. Why on earth would I be angry? They're faithfully representing the interests of the voters who put them in office.


relevant, yes. an excuse, no.

crimes committed in the pursuit of preventing/exposing crimes are still crimes. especially with regards to govt crime fighters, such as the defacto leader of the department of justice. that's the reason we have the 4th amendment. trump could have directed his DOJ to investigate this, outsourcing to a foreign govt isn't a legal and viable option.

Quote (thundercock @ Jan 27 2020 12:43pm)
The DOJ is more than capable of doing this. But we all know why the DOJ hasn't done anything and Trump decided to use a back-channel instead.


inb4'd me

This post was edited by thesnipa on Jan 27 2020 12:46pm
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Jan 27 2020 01:06pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Jan 27 2020 01:45pm)
relevant, yes. an excuse, no.

crimes committed in the pursuit of preventing/exposing crimes are still crimes. especially with regards to govt crime fighters, such as the defacto leader of the department of justice. that's the reason we have the 4th amendment. trump could have directed his DOJ to investigate this, outsourcing to a foreign govt isn't a legal and viable option.



inb4'd me


It's illegal to ask a foreign government to investigate corruption and/or crimes committed within their jurisdiction?
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Jan 27 2020 01:11pm
Quote (thundercock @ Jan 27 2020 12:43pm)
The DOJ is more than capable of doing this. But we all know why the DOJ hasn't done anything and Trump decided to use a back-channel instead.


Quote (thesnipa @ Jan 27 2020 12:45pm)
relevant, yes. an excuse, no.

crimes committed in the pursuit of preventing/exposing crimes are still crimes. especially with regards to govt crime fighters, such as the defacto leader of the department of justice. that's the reason we have the 4th amendment. trump could have directed his DOJ to investigate this, outsourcing to a foreign govt isn't a legal and viable option.



inb4'd me


Is it?
An allegation against the Bidens would have to involve a crime- a federal crime. A crime under the FBI's jurisdiction. Biden exercising executive powers of diplomacy isn't a crime for Biden any more than it is for Trump. The FBI can't go investigating someone without an allegation of a crime, and they can't enforce foreign law, and the window for assisting foreign corruption investigations is notoriously small and can be shut down by the very overseas corruption in law enforcement that Joe Biden was involved with.

I don't think we can take it as a given that there was any 'proper' channel for enforcement against Joe/Hunter Biden beyond Trump exerting diplomatic pressure on Ukraine to enforce their domestic laws. Which is precisely what he did.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Jan 27 2020 01:12pm
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