Quote (AEtheric @ Aug 15 2012 02:36am)

You play Warhammer 40k?

Quote (Aisu_aS @ Aug 15 2012 09:23am)

If i had the cash to fork out for miniatures I would. I am a huge fan of the lore though.

Quote (AEtheric @ Aug 15 2012 10:25am)

Ah. That's cool. I love the lore as well. You should play Inquisitor if you like the lore, not to mention Inquisitor is incredibly realistic and fun.

Quote (simpleforce @ Aug 15 2012 07:38am)

I play Red Alert 3.


We're talking about this right?

Quote (poulgaragr @ Aug 15 2012 07:18pm)

lol they have ZERO answers akhi so they turn to other irrelevant stuff instead

Quote (sylvannos @ Aug 13 2012 01:12am)

The Koran is easily the most important work to come out of the Arabic-speaking world. However, its significance is based on its involvement within that culture. It does not have as significant meaning or beauty to a non-muslim or non-arab speaker as a plethora of other literary works. For myself, The Great Gatsby and the Declaration of Independence are far more important works in my culture with amazing uses of the English language.

You're basically asking us to provide a greater piece of music than Beethoven's 12th. symphony. It's pretty subjective and based on the culture of the person.



I'll address this one below. But for now, I'd say it's not an easy process, but cloning flies is quite possible.



One of the issues I have with Islam and the Koran is the rejection of the Old and New testament (due to their supposed corruption from being written by men, not God), yet the acceptance of Christ being able to preform miracles. Or that previous prohphets (such as Abraham and Moses) even existed. The Koran and Islam pick and choose from what texts are still applicable from Judaism and Christianity.

It is quite silly to accept there are blatant contradictions in the bible, yet accept the over-the-top miracles and events depicted.



Like #2, this argument can easily be made from a Christian or Jew and does nothing to prove Islam is true. That being said, abiogenesis is completely compatible with Islam, as is evolution. However, neither one claims to have something come out of nothing. The simple bottom line is that matter cannot be created, nor can matter be destroyed. It can move around, but that's it, which is exactly what evolution and abiogenesis are about.

As far as the Big Bang goes, scientists are operating under the hypothesis there was something before the big bang. All the big bang explains is the universe as we currently know it from a single point in time. It doesn't go into explaining what came before. The short answer is that we just don't know yet, but we're working on it.

My counter-claim for you then becomes: How did God come to exist? Did he come from nothing?



These are all nitpicking texts within the Bible that goes back to my answer in #3. These are also arguments against Christianity and Judaism, but not arguments for Islam. Any non-christian or non-Jew could make these arguments.

So far, the only thing you've said in the defense of Islam is that the Koran is a really well-written text with a lot of wisdom. Everything is just miscellaneous ramblings about how other people's beliefs are wrong. But just because someone things 1 + 1 = 3 and you think the answer is 4 makes neither one of you correct.

As you like to say: CASE CLOSED!

Quote (poulgaragr @ Aug 14 2012 10:22pm)

Biggest pile of BS I have ever seen put in ONE PLACE

Quote (simpleforce @ Aug 15 2012 06:37pm)

The Muslims believe in a once upon a time Bible Torah as well as a book before these. The problem was man changed it to favor his views. There are things the Bible still say that completely coincide with Islam. Islam is simply a follow up, a newer testament. It is not meant to be a new religion, but a revival of the only religion of God which has been practiced from Adam to Jesus to Muhammad and on. The Quran though is the final warning and mercy, and therefore protected from any corruption.

Its funny you mention there is some event before the Big Bang. Here is the verse:
Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
The fact that they were joined together before the Big Bang will be what science explains, I have no doubt.


My counter-claim for you then becomes: How did God come to exist? Did he come from nothing?
You have to have a beginning of either. The problem is the material world is limited to the finite. One has to assume there is a infinite, and if it can't be material, it has to be supernatural.

Quote (simpleforce @ Aug 15 2012 10:37pm)

The Muslims believe in a once upon a time Bible Torah as well as a book before these. The problem was man changed it to favor his views. There are things the Bible still say that completely coincide with Islam. Islam is simply a follow up, a newer testament. It is not meant to be a new religion, but a revival of the only religion of God which has been practiced from Adam to Jesus to Muhammad and on. The Quran though is the final warning and mercy, and therefore protected from any corruption.

Its funny you mention there is some event before the Big Bang. Here is the verse:
Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
The fact that they were joined together before the Big Bang will be what science explains, I have no doubt.


My counter-claim for you then becomes: How did God come to exist? Did he come from nothing?
You have to have a beginning of either. The problem is the material world is limited to the finite. One has to assume there is a infinite, and if it can't be material, it has to be supernatural.

Quote (Voyaging @ Aug 16 2012 01:46am)

There is no good reason to assume the quality of being eternal cannot be applied to the universe. It is simply a baseless assumption to assume it is not possible.

Quote (sylvannos @ Aug 16 2012 05:41am)

I was giving you a decent response in a civil manner. If you want to be an ass about it, then you're not going to show anyone anything about Islam. In other words, you're fucking dumb if this is the best response you can give. Go eat a dick, kid.



But if the bible has been tainted by man, couldn't it also be possible Christ's message and teachings were also tainted? If that were true it would kind of make the entire new testament unneeded. We would have to use our own morality to decode what Jesus actually said and what is lies. If that were the case, we wouldn't need to figure it out at all. In other words, Islam should be a completely separate religion, albeit monotheistic.

As for your second point, it's why I think Islam is compatible, along with Judaism and Christianity, with what we know in modern science. However, there's a distinction I'm making which is that big bang/evolution/abiogenesis is not the same thing as "something from nothing," which is a strawmam.

For your third point, the supernatural does not mean god or even supernatural. Our universe and physics are based on our current reality. Let's consider, for a moment, that the matter of the universe did not start from one location as a hot mass, as we describe in the big bang. That would mean our universe isn't expanding, nor is it cooling down.

Why are those important? It changes the very nature of space, which is a vacuum. Galaxies wouldn't spin the way they do. Space would be possibly warmer, instead of cold. There are an insane number of possibilities. If we were to somehow travel to another universe, it would have completely different physics. That doesn't prove, however, that there's an infinitely powerful, infinitely knowing being watching over us.

edit: I play fantasy, 40k, necromunda, mordheim, and just got dreadfleet