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#3761
Mar 16 2021 12:42pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Mar 16 2021 01:37pm)
High-earners are the back-bone of government revenue. Show some respect to the people you rely on to deliver you your government services.


Fuck that noise. They get a disproportionate benefit to what they add to the system. You're stuck on talking points from 2005 on basically every subject.
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#3762
Mar 16 2021 12:42pm
Quote (bogie160 @ 16 Mar 2021 14:37)
High-earners are the back-bone of government revenue. Show some respect to the people you rely on to deliver you your government services.



The corporate tax rate is already too high. The United States needs to accept that it cannot tax world-wide income and focus on creating a hospitable climate for corporations within the country.

If taxes need to go up, that is better achieved by income taxation or VAT.

lmao well said my friend

and yes, VAT is a much more feasible system than “tax the rich more”

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 16 Mar 2021 11:34)
I didnt say I'm categorically against all provisions in this bill, I'm just not surprised that "uber moderate" Joe Biden comes around with tax hikes.
Depending on the specifics, a hike of the estate tax could indeed hit the middle class and/or suburbia though.



Raising the corporate tax back to 28% is probably for the better, as are higher taxes for very high income individuals ($400k/$1m being the threshold cited in the article), but a hike of the estate tax could directly affect the middle class as opposed to the rich. I'm also not so sure what the ramifications of meddling with LLCs will be.


the delusion that the “rich and wealthy” will bear any of these additional regressive taxes is laughable. sure all the mom and pop stores that make $400k or so in revenue will get hosed but theyre “rich” anyway

most of the people writing and influencing the writing of the tax laws are the rich and wealthy lmao

its gonna be a laugh when the suburban karens and male karens that voted for this end up crying that this wasnt worth getting rid of mean tweets for

This post was edited by excellence on Mar 16 2021 12:43pm
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#3763
Mar 16 2021 12:47pm
Quote (bogie160 @ 16 Mar 2021 19:37)
High-earners are the back-bone of government revenue. Show some respect to the people you rely on to deliver you your government services.



The corporate tax rate is already too high. The United States needs to accept that it cannot tax world-wide income and focus on creating a hospitable climate for corporations within the country.

If taxes need to go up, that is better achieved by income taxation or VAT.


Classical income taxation mostly affects the middle class, VAT disproportionately affects the poor and the working-class.
The most straightforward and fair way to raise tax revenue is probably to tax income derived from capital gains at the same rate as income from work.

The optimal corporate tax level is something I cant really comment on. If you ask me, neither focusing exclusively on accommodating business interests nor taxing them into oblivion leads to the optimal outcome for society as a whole.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 16 2021 12:48pm
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#3764
Mar 16 2021 01:01pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Mar 16 2021 02:42pm)
Fuck that noise. They get a disproportionate benefit to what they add to the system. You're stuck on talking points from 2005 on basically every subject.


They disproportionately produce and consume that production at a lower rate as a result of progressive taxation. It is actually the opposite of what you've just said.

A fair tax rate is a flat tax rate. Unfortunately, we have a huge appetite for revenue, and therefore need the wealthy to pay slightly more. Be thankful for their contributions.

In the margins we can discuss small changes, e.g. adding additional graduated levels to the capital gains rate, but the accusation that wealthy, and specifically upper-middle class wealthy, are free-loading is inaccurate.
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#3765
Mar 16 2021 01:24pm
Quote (bogie160 @ 16 Mar 2021 20:01)
They disproportionately produce and consume that production at a lower rate as a result of progressive taxation. It is actually the opposite of what you've just said.

A fair tax rate is a flat tax rate. Unfortunately, we have a huge appetite for revenue, and therefore need the wealthy to pay slightly more. Be thankful for their contributions.

In the margins we can discuss small changes, e.g. adding additional graduated levels to the capital gains rate, but the accusation that wealthy, and specifically upper-middle class wealthy, are free-loading is inaccurate.


Pitting the upper-middle class against the working class is just a distraction from what both sides can agree on: that the billionaire class is not paying its fair share and should be soaked.
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#3766
Mar 16 2021 02:17pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 16 2021 02:24pm)
Pitting the upper-middle class against the working class is just a distraction from what both sides can agree on: that the billionaire class is not paying its fair share and should be soaked.


:thumbsup:

Quote (bogie160 @ Mar 16 2021 02:01pm)
They disproportionately produce and consume that production at a lower rate as a result of progressive taxation. It is actually the opposite of what you've just said.

A fair tax rate is a flat tax rate. Unfortunately, we have a huge appetite for revenue, and therefore need the wealthy to pay slightly more. Be thankful for their contributions.

In the margins we can discuss small changes, e.g. adding additional graduated levels to the capital gains rate, but the accusation that wealthy, and specifically upper-middle class wealthy, are free-loading is inaccurate.


I'm not calling out upper middle class. You said "high-earners", which I interpreted to mean the multi-million a year and higher level.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Mar 16 2021 02:18pm
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#3767
Mar 16 2021 03:00pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 16 Mar 2021 14:47)
Classical income taxation mostly affects the middle class, VAT disproportionately affects the poor and the working-class.
The most straightforward and fair way to raise tax revenue is probably to tax income derived from capital gains at the same rate as income from work.

The optimal corporate tax level is something I cant really comment on. If you ask me, neither focusing exclusively on accommodating business interests nor taxing them into oblivion leads to the optimal outcome for society as a whole.

that hoses the middle class and people who invest long term too. everyone who is “rich and wealthy” will just draw a $1 salary
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#3768
Mar 16 2021 09:12pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Mar 16 2021 04:17pm)

I'm not calling out upper middle class. You said "high-earners", which I interpreted to mean the multi-million a year and higher level.


What is your cut-off for the upper middle class?

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 16 2021 03:24pm)
Pitting the upper-middle class against the working class is just a distraction from what both sides can agree on: that the billionaire class is not paying its fair share and should be soaked.


If we were to enact a 2% wealth tax (annually) on every American billionaire it would represent a drop in the bucket in terms of our present deficit. If we confiscated all of their wealth it would represent a negligible impact on the American debt.

We have to go after the upper-middle class and the lesser wealthy because that's where the money is. Number of Taxpayers * Taxpayer Income = Government Revenue. The obscenely rich might make some people mad, but they just don't have enough.
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#3769
Mar 16 2021 09:18pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Mar 16 2021 10:12pm)
What is your cut-off for the upper middle class?


Lower class probably ends around 40k/year at the average cost of living in the U.S.

Middle class probably ends around 250-350k/year for a household.

Upper class goes beyond that, where you end up in "middle upper class" when your primary income is investment instead of working, middle upper when you exclusively rely on investment, and then there's upper upper class where your family has multiple generations living on investments.
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#3770
Mar 17 2021 01:02am
McConnell: if you try to change the filibuster I'll fillibuster everything

Everybody: how is that different from what you do now?
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