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#37041
Apr 23 2020 01:59pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Apr 23 2020 02:54pm)
Yeah, that's freedom in the abstract. If you say "you can go dig up the gold if you want, but there's also a ton of landmines that will kill you" are you really free to look for the gold? No... not really. You're not even really free to go into that section of the yard.

Remove both the gold and the minefield and suddenly you've got more yard to explore. You've sacrificed the "freedom" to find gold or die, and in return gained more yard to live in. In practical terms you've actually gotten more free because you were never going to risk your arm getting blown off.


some people want to sit in a yard, some people will roll the dice and look for gold until the day they die.

if we want a more accurate example it would be a yard with 20 boxes, 1 contains gold, 1 diamonds, 16 contain old pennies, and 2 have poison gas.

im still not sure how chopping out someone's ceiling and floor and making them live in the middle makes them more free. you've just made a game where all they can dig are penny boxes.

better for them? maybe. more happy of a life? probably. more free? nope.
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#37042
Apr 23 2020 02:01pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Apr 23 2020 12:40pm)
"americans think they're free, but really they're not free, because they are free to fail. real freedom is paying more to your govt in case you fail so they can stop your failure."

mixed in with typical "north korea doesnt exist and that's why americans are the most indoctrinated people on earth" nonsense.

those kind of things to me are like game of thrones last season, hits a few high notes but overall its trash.


I mean, Americans really are an ignorant bunch because we tend to have a very limited view of history. This causes our population to have pretty warped views and values.

As for the freedom argument, you're right. We do have the freedom to fail and I support Americans wanting to have that type of society. If that's the case, we need some serious tax reform because what we have is a fucking mess.
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#37043
Apr 23 2020 02:03pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Apr 23 2020 02:59pm)
some people want to sit in a yard, some people will roll the dice and look for gold until the day they die.



And some people want to explore the yard without fear of landmines. Those people lose their freedom by presence of the gold/landmine combo. You expand freedom for these people by removing both, and since those people make up the vast majority of the population their added freedom counts for a lot more than the freedom of the guy willing to risk his life looking for gold.
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#37044
Apr 23 2020 02:08pm
it's funny how the 'well, we're still technically more free, just some of it is free to fail' narrative is slowly becoming a thing. americans' leashes aren't longer, it's just that their yard got neglected - so i guess you could tell yourself it's therefore 'more interesting'.

significant restrictions of especially personal and political freedoms (like systematic voter suppression, women's right to bodily autonomy, countless limitations as result of the PATRIOT act...) are still a thing though. the 'bad' isn't limited to what some hacks would apparently love to simply reframe as 'opportunity' - stop deluding yourselves.


https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/human-freedom-index-files/cato-human-freedom-index-update-3.pdf
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#37045
Apr 23 2020 02:09pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Apr 23 2020 03:03pm)
And some people want to explore the yard without fear of landmines. Those people lose their freedom by presence of the gold/landmine combo. You expand freedom for these people by removing both, and since those people make up the vast majority of the population their added freedom counts for a lot more than the freedom of the guy willing to risk his life looking for gold.


the "vast majority" dont want to fail versus getting rich off of your own hard work and risk is called "the american dream"

i disagree, but if that's you move to canada or another country. you're a college educated person, im sure they'll take u.
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#37046
Apr 23 2020 02:12pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Apr 23 2020 03:09pm)
the "vast majority" dont want to fail versus getting rich off of your own hard work and risk is called "the american dream"

i disagree, but if that's you move to canada or another country. you're a college educated person, im sure they'll take u.


I disagree with your interpretation of the American Dream. The American Dream was to work hard and become middle class. Not to work hard and become a millionaire or become destitute in the process.

The path was

Parents move here --> Kids have a better life --> Their kids have a great life as third generation

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Apr 23 2020 02:17pm
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#37047
Apr 23 2020 02:20pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Apr 23 2020 03:12pm)
I disagree with your interpretation of the American Dream. The American Dream was to work hard and become middle class. Not to work hard and become a millionaire or become destitute in the process.

The path was

Parents move here --> Kids have a better life --> Their kids have a great life as third generation

Not

Parents move here ---> Multimillionaire
\
------> Poor as fuck


i've heard both. middle class success is indeed referenced, and its also used on shark tank every time an immigrant makes a successful business. so good point there.

and still rags to riches still seems like a far more likely scenario in the US where u can avoid getting taxed to hell when building a business than somewhere with a massive tax burden, increased worker costs on paid family leave, etc.

and on the other end of the spectrum u can treat workers like shit in China but the state takes so much it's moot.
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#37048
Apr 23 2020 02:24pm
Quote (fender @ Apr 23 2020 08:31pm)
https://i.imgur.com/yqJpvPT.jpg


I agree. But why are you so obsessed with America? You don't have to associate with Americans if you don't want to.
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#37049
Apr 23 2020 02:26pm
Quote (dro94 @ Apr 23 2020 03:24pm)
I agree. But why are you so obsessed with America? You don't have to associate with Americans if you don't want to.


we are responsible for crushing his grandfather's dream.
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#37050
Apr 23 2020 02:38pm
Quote (thesnipa @ 23 Apr 2020 16:26)
we are responsible for crushing his grandfather's dream.

should have never shown compassion and let them rebuild after they tried to destroy the world twice in a 25 year span. would the kaiser or the reich have been so merciful???
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