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Apr 22 2020 02:48pm
Quote (Santara @ Apr 22 2020 03:39pm)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_rights_and_legal_rights

How many times will it take to disabuse you of this misrepresentation?


Depends how you define a right. If you define a right as an expectation of how you will be treated then rights are only human creations. If you create some other definition then you can say they come from any source.
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Apr 22 2020 02:53pm
Quote (Santara @ Apr 22 2020 01:48pm)
Sometimes having them abused by others is a reason to abdicate them?


I guess I don't see a practical difference between the two? If I lost my "natural right of life," I'd still have laws against murder to protect me to an extent (obviously someone could still murder me but they'd be prosecuted if caught).

Alternatively, if there was no law against murder, someone can murder me without repercussion. I guess I don't understand the point of natural rights from a practical point of view. I can understand their merits as a philosophical underpinning, but that's about it.
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Apr 22 2020 03:08pm
Quote (Santara @ Apr 22 2020 04:39pm)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_rights_and_legal_rights





How many times will it take to disabuse you of this misrepresentation?


Name a single inalienable natural right plox.


Quote (Thor123422 @ Apr 22 2020 04:48pm)
Depends how you define a right. If you define a right as an expectation of how you will be treated then rights are only human creations. If you create some other definition then you can say they come from any source.


What else can a right be besides an expectation to be treated a certain way?

This post was edited by Skinned on Apr 22 2020 03:10pm
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Apr 22 2020 03:12pm
Quote (Skinned @ Apr 22 2020 04:08pm)
Name a single inalienable natural right plox.


I'm reading through the linked wiki page and there's truly some gems.

Quote
According to Locke there are three natural rights:

Life: everyone is entitled to live.[40]
Liberty: everyone is entitled to do anything they want to so long as it doesn't conflict with the first right.
Estate: everyone is entitled to own all they create or gain through gift or trade so long as it doesn't conflict with the first two rights.
Locke in his central political philosophy believes in a government that provides what he claims to be basic and natural given rights for its citizens


This post was edited by Thor123422 on Apr 22 2020 03:13pm
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Apr 22 2020 04:57pm
Quote (thundercock @ Apr 22 2020 03:53pm)
I guess I don't see a practical difference between the two? If I lost my "natural right of life," I'd still have laws against murder to protect me to an extent (obviously someone could still murder me but they'd be prosecuted if caught).

Alternatively, if there was no law against murder, someone can murder me without repercussion. I guess I don't understand the point of natural rights from a practical point of view. I can understand their merits as a philosophical underpinning, but that's about it.


Tell me you don't actually believe that.

Say for example you killed my daughter. I would then return the favor.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Apr 22 2020 04:12pm)
I'm reading through the linked wiki page and there's truly some gems.


And Locke's take is different from Spooner's. Government is not necessarily the only vehicle for justice.

https://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/spooner-natural-law-or-the-science-of-justice-1882

Quote
Man, no doubt, owes many other moral duties to his fellow men; such as to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, care for the sick, protect the defenceless, assist the weak, and enlighten the ignorant. But these are simply moral duties, of which each man must be his own judge, in each particular case, as to whether, and how, and how far, he can, or will, perform them. But of his legal duty—that is, of his duty to live honestly towards his fellow men—his fellow men not only may judge, but, for their own protection, must judge. And, if need be, they may rightfully compel him to perform it. They may do this, acting singly, or in concert. They may do it on the instant, as the necessity arises, or deliberately and systematically, if they prefer to do so, and the exigency will admit of it.
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Apr 22 2020 06:38pm
Quote (Santara @ Apr 22 2020 03:57pm)
Tell me you don't actually believe that.

Say for example you killed my daughter. I would then return the favor.


That's exactly my point. Ultimately, that right is only as good as the enforcement mechanism behind it.
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Apr 22 2020 07:03pm
Quote (Santara @ Apr 23 2020 08:57am)
Tell me you don't actually believe that.

Say for example you killed my daughter. I would then return the favor.


Not if I had a bigger group of people with more weapons, without a society to hold anyone to account might is right would prevail.

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Apr 22 2020 07:04pm



CNN chyron guy still going strong.
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Apr 22 2020 07:16pm
Quote (IceMage @ Apr 22 2020 08:04pm)
https://i.imgur.com/ey45vlc.jpg

CNN chyron guy still going strong.


:rofl:

BUT THAT'S BIASED! NOT PRESENTING TRUMP'S OPINION AS EQUAL TO FAUCI IS JUST LIBERAL SPIN REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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Apr 22 2020 08:37pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Apr 22 2020 06:16pm)
:rofl:

BUT THAT'S BIASED! NOT PRESENTING TRUMP'S OPINION AS EQUAL TO FAUCI IS JUST LIBERAL SPIN REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE



Let’s play a game. In the fall when a reporter asks what will his excuse be? I’ll put 500fg to the person that guess the closest lame excuse
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