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Apr 20 2020 06:44am
New York City has 3000 excess deaths in the month of coronavirus compared to previous years, despite ascribing 10000 deaths to it
the only reason their numbers are high is because their counting conditions are absurd and retroactive

there's no reason to think its any deadlier in nyc compared to san franscisco per capita, its just how they're reporting it
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Apr 20 2020 08:11am
Quote (Goomshill @ Apr 20 2020 08:44am)
New York City has 3000 excess deaths in the month of coronavirus compared to previous years, despite ascribing 10000 deaths to it
the only reason their numbers are high is because their counting conditions are absurd and retroactive

there's no reason to think its any deadlier in nyc compared to san franscisco per capita, its just how they're reporting it


How so?
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Apr 20 2020 08:20am
Quote (IceMage @ 20 Apr 2020 10:11)
How so?

probably in reference to this (not sure if this is common practice for other diseases etc.)

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nyc-adds-3-700-death-204223449.html?bcmt=1
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-52303739
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Apr 20 2020 08:30am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Apr 20 2020 04:07am)
San Fran pop density: 18800:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco

New York City pop density: 27700:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City

Still a difference, but not even by a factor of 2, let alone 4. And not enough that it could explain the difference between tens of thousands of corona death vs only a handful.


Crap...you're right about the numbers. I saw the 66K number Google put in big bold letters, and didn't notice that those were the numbers for Manhattan, not all of NYC.
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Apr 20 2020 09:55am
Quote (Goomshill @ 20 Apr 2020 14:44)
New York City has 3000 excess deaths in the month of coronavirus compared to previous years, despite ascribing 10000 deaths to it
the only reason their numbers are high is because their counting conditions are absurd and retroactive

there's no reason to think its any deadlier in nyc compared to san franscisco per capita, its just how they're reporting it


You have to keep in mind, however, that the shutdown/social distancing has slowed down other infectious diseases, like the seasonal flu. So looking at the raw excess mortality without accounting for the unprecedented and extremely costly distancing measures leads to an underestimation of the true™ coronavirus mortality.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Apr 20 2020 09:55am
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Apr 20 2020 11:17am
Quote (Goomshill @ Apr 20 2020 08:44am)
New York City has 3000 excess deaths in the month of coronavirus compared to previous years, despite ascribing 10000 deaths to it
the only reason their numbers are high is because their counting conditions are absurd and retroactive

there's no reason to think its any deadlier in nyc compared to san franscisco per capita, its just how they're reporting it


I'm really curious how they are accounting for these deaths as well tbh. I read a pretty interesting blog from this finance guy i follow.

Quote
I read an insightful piece from recently-retired Professor of Pathology and NHS consultant pathologist, Dr John Lee who states in an article in the spectator.

“The simplest way to judge whether we have an exceptionally lethal disease is to look at the death rates. Are more people dying than we would expect to die anyway in a given week or month? Statistically, we would expect about 51,000 to die in Britain this month. At the time of writing, 422 deaths are linked to Covid-19 — so 0.8 per cent of that expected total. On a global basis, we’d expect 14 million to die over the first three months of the year. The world’s 18,944 coronavirus deaths represent 0.14 per cent of that total. These figures might shoot up but they are, right now, lower than other infectious diseases that we live with (such as flu). Not figures that would, in and of themselves, cause drastic global reactions.”

He goes on to explain that the reporting of deaths…or the “new” method of reporting deaths is screwy worrisome.

But there’s another, potentially even more serious problem: the way that deaths are

recorded. If someone dies of a respiratory infection in the UK, the specific cause of the infection is not usually recorded, unless the illness is a rare ‘notifiable disease’. So the vast majority of respiratory deaths in the UK are recorded as bronchopneumonia, pneumonia, old age or a similar designation. We don’t really test for flu, or other seasonal infections. If the patient has, say, cancer, motor neurone disease or another serious disease, this will be recorded as the cause of death, even if the final illness was a respiratory infection. This means UK certifications normally under-record deaths due to respiratory infections.

Now look at what has happened since the emergence of Covid-19. The list of notifiable diseases has been updated. This list — as well as containing smallpox (which has been extinct for many years) and conditions such as anthrax, brucellosis, plague and rabies (which most UK doctors will never see in their entire careers) — has now been amended to include Covid-19. But not flu. That means every positive test for Covid-19 must be notified, in a way that it just would not be for flu or most other infections.

In the current climate, anyone with a positive test for Covid-19 will certainly be known to clinical staff looking after them: if any of these patients dies, staff will have to record the Covid-19 designation on the death certificate — contrary to usual practice for most infections of this kind. There is a big difference between Covid-19 causing death, and Covid-19 being found in someone who died of other causes. Making Covid-19 notifiable might give the appearance of it causing increasing numbers of deaths, whether this is true or not. It might appear far more of a killer than flu, simply because of the way deaths are recorded.



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Apr 20 2020 01:08pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Apr 20 2020 12:17pm)
I'm really curious how they are accounting for these deaths as well tbh. I read a pretty interesting blog from this finance guy i follow.


This gets at the heart of science's fundamental limitation. There's no second world where we can change one thing at a time. We'll never know if somebody with a heart condition died from the heart condition on its own, from the heart condition because of Covid, or would have died from Covid regardless of their heart condition. Best we can do is tally them all now and do our best to decouple them later while accepting the error bars will never be very good.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Apr 20 2020 01:09pm
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