d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Official Political Picture Thread
Prev1365836593660366136625001Next
Closed New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 21,486
Joined: Jul 21 2005
Gold: 438.40
Apr 7 2020 09:48am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Apr 7 2020 08:05am)
Sorry, but Obama vs Romney in 2012 imho was the most conventional, normal presidential race I can imagine. It doesnt hold a candle to the shitshow we got in 2016, and that we're guaranteed to get again in 2020.


I don't believe I even understand what that means. I've seen a lot of election campaigns, and most boil down to a central strategy. The "shitshow" with Trump in 2016 might appear differently to me than you.

The DNC and Clinton started by throwing quite literally everything they could at him and hoping something would stick. When it didn't, they lost. Why? On the political side, the had very little of substance to offer. There was a lot about removing the voice of white people, granting more positions to non white people. Hiking up taxes and fees on all fossil fuels and natural gases even higher. Preventing new pipelines (oil and natural gas) and potentially even dismantling current pipelines. Adopting a far broader open borders policy during a decade of increased terrorist attack in the EU which already has similar policies, etc. On the social side of things you had them doing everything they could to try to tie him to the KKK and requiring that he not only disavow, but apologize for actions of alleged white supremacist fringes that he had nothing to do with. Meantime, they lauded the efforts of communist anarchists like Antifa in their "fight against fascism" even though it wasn't fascism, but both liberty and capitalism that was being harmed by the property damage and concerted moblike attacks of the groups.

On the flipside, you had Trump and the RNC pointing out everywhere the DNC and it's nominee had failed and how they'd do better, and the specific policies they'd use to do so. They talked about tightening the border security to reduce external terror and drug threats, work to insure equality of opportunity, rather than inherently racist and sexist equality of outcome policies, reduce taxes on primary power sources and expand those sources so they become a much lower percentage of the working class's expenditures. There was a lot of talk about reduction in regulations that favored massive corporations and crippled small businesses, and promised an "America First" approach to international trade that would favor the American Worker, rather than the sweatshop slave labor of compulsory work portions of China. They also soundly denounced all violent fringe groups, be they antifa or some white supremacist or BLM or any other who wanted to hurt people and damage property. From a reasoned perspective, the promises of the RNC and Trump were a much better bet. And shock of all shockers, rather than promptly doing the exact opposite of what was promised, they proceeded to work towards fulfilling those promises, which is rather astounding.

Regarding Republican Primaries, Trump just made fun of everyone else while harping on his 6 basic talking points and playing the crowd until his popularity grew enough that everyone else dropped out. I mean, that's the real boil down. There was some interplay between losing candidates that was rather nasty. But for Trump's part, he mercilessly mocked everyone else while bragging on himself. Which is par for the course, as he's been doing exactly the same thing regarding quite literally EVERYTHING since the 80's (and probably before). That his tactics are considered "nasty" is complete BS. He wasn't accusing people of sexual scandals or getting "anonymous sources" to exemplify that, which WAS done by the DNC against him (notice how all that mysteriously went away without a single court appearance?). They even went so far as to bring out a 40 year old porn star who had consensual sex with Trump, then accepted money in exchange for a NDA, which she violated. Was any crime committed in Trump banging a skank? No. Did it alter ANYONE'S view of an extremely public figure who's been a known womanizer longer than the skank has been alive? Nope. What was the only thing accomplished? A 40 year old porn star who's numbers (and profits) had gone to shit suddenly became the center of attention long enough to make millions. Great job! So I dunno, claims of dirty behavior... The piss dossier? Good grief. The list goes on and on. And let's not even talk about the DNC's actions against ol' Bernie.

Thus far, I see no real change from last election, and COVID19 will likely just become the new piss dossier/sexual allegations "scandals", with the economic impact of the virus being used as "proof" that the economic policies that have led to the absolute boom of the US economy over the last 3 years really being something that has "crashed" it.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Apr 7 2020 10:01am
Member
Posts: 64,763
Joined: Oct 25 2006
Gold: 0.00
Apr 7 2020 09:57am
Seems like you're giving Republicans the most generous interpretations you can and cherry picking the worst of the left and playing it off as representative of the whole. I bet you watch Sargon of Akkad and Ben Shapiro and think they're objective.
Member
Posts: 54,187
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
Apr 7 2020 10:24am
Quote (Thor123422 @ 7 Apr 2020 17:27)
Seems to support my argument that this election hasn't been particularly eventful. Sure there's a lot of things outside of the election that have happened, but that hasn't exactly impacted the primary process and have largely been dealt with outside of that process.


Sure, the primary this year has been fairly normal. But the general election campaign will be far from normal, that much is certain.
Member
Posts: 21,486
Joined: Jul 21 2005
Gold: 438.40
Apr 7 2020 10:47am
Quote (Thor123422 @ Apr 7 2020 08:57am)
Seems like you're giving Republicans the most generous interpretations you can and cherry picking the worst of the left and playing it off as representative of the whole. I bet you watch Sargon of Akkad and Ben Shapiro and think they're objective.


If anything, I'm being overly generous to both sides. But my boil down on it, and the majority of the reason I voted for Trump when I voted AGAINST W. Bush twice, and FOR Obama twice had to do with seeing what the actual policies of the DNC had created, how they'd harmed our economy, put the burden of the health insurance for the unemployed and elderly square on the backs of the lower/middle working class, overly regulated and taxed everything regarding business AND power production and distribution to the point that my electric bill went from $17/month to $150/month with the same usage, and more. It became time to ignore any accusations that were not accompanied by hard evidence, and simply look at the facts. The platforms as they appeared:

Republican:
1. American first trade policies that would protect the American worker from having to compete with slave-level labor of nations that are violating international agreement in treatment and compensation of workers.
2. Secure the borders and reduce the flow as much as realistically possible of those who would enter illegally for any reason, and in so doing, minimize the threat of the drug trade and terrorism (which have been positively linked).
3. Actively Deport criminal aliens and discontinue the catch and release practice that had been occurring.
4. Do whatever could be done to undo the ACA, pharmaceutical protectionism, and the individual mandate requiring people to purchase a financial service simply because they exist.
5. Utilize American oil and natural gas fully, using the safest and most modern (efficient and environmentally conscious) methods to transport and utilize those goods, and remove excess taxes against the companies and customers of those goods that were driving the costs to the working classes sky high.
6. Remove the road blocks preventing solid trade deals such as the pipelines to/from Canada, for mutual benefit.
7. Prevent further attempts to infringe on the first and second amendments.

Democrats:
1. Further increase globalization of trade in such a way that the company that outsources both production and labor to the third world will gain the greatest profit.
2. Further the "One Earth" policy of borderless nations, allowing a more fluid transfer of people into and out of the US, without monitoring or vetting.
3. In line with number two, claim that people are people, and if they're in America, they're Americans, and should be treated as such. Abolishment of ICE and discontinuation of deportation except in extreme circumstances.
4. Increase the fine for failing to comply with the individual mandate, allocate more funds towards propping up the ACA Marketplace, work on a way to publicize healthcare entirely before the system bankrupts the nation.
5. Prevent any new breakthroughs, pipelines, clean coal upgrades and advancements, and load on more taxes on these methods of power production. Add billions in funding to solar and wind technology, hope something that provides significantly more energy than is required to produce and maintain it is created. Call anyone who questions this method a science denier.
6. Actively attempting to drastically increase representation of non whites and women in any position of power, regardless of qualification.
7. Trump is the end of the world, if he is elected, it'll be nuclear war, or a crashed economy, or terrorists will win. One of those, magically, somehow.
8. Drastically redefine the second amendment to allow violations of the rights it guarantees without any need for a judgement by a jury of peers. Redefine the first amendment to disallow any form of offensive speech, and an attempt to prevent religious institutions from discussing anything that might influence their congregations' political stance.

The left accused the right of having an overly religious overtone in their policy terms, when there were next to none. The left accused the right of being hand in hand with white supremacists and neonazis, which is completely alien to the conservative worldview from the start, and is also untrue. The left accused the right of having excessive numbers of sexual scandals, and claimed to have victims enough on hand to make the case, and never took it anywhere, because nobody can remain anonymous in court, it was just a dirty tactic. The left accused trump of all kinds of horrible things, and held a couple year long investigation over it with the "dossier" and Russia allegations, and all of it turned out to be absolutely nothing. As it turns out, not only did the left attack Trump in every way possible as dirtily as possible the moment he won the Republican primaries, but they continued it for years, right up to an impeachment where he was acquitted. On top of that, the left utilized it's resources to attack Sanders, and effectively prevent him from even the possibility of winning. And even though he would have lost regardless, that's just a piss poor way of dealing with one of their own.

The right pulled up everything in the books, from Clinton's Secretary of State "experience" to her legal antics to her time as first lady to her husband's on-record sexual history, and her absolute defense of it. They pointed at the weak border policies of the left, the trade policies that completely fuck the American worker, and a "healthcare bill" that effectively enslaves the American working class in order to pay for the healthcare of the elderly and jobless. They pointed at the support and excuses the left was making for terrorist organizations such as Antifa who were physically attacking the right and destroying property damage. They accurately pointed out the racist and sexist stance of the DNC, that demanding a certain representation from sex or race ignores the experience, qualifications, aka "content of character" that equality demands. They denounced divisive tactics that alienate ANY Americans, and instead tried to push for the idea that we needed the proposed policies so that EVERYONE could benefit, and that the lower to lower-middle working class would benefit the most, which would most help the poorest areas (trailer trash, ghetto, etc.).

As it stood, the number of times I've heard "they're racist, sexist, etc." regarding quite literally every republican in office everywhere is astounding. The number of times it's repeated by actual Democrats holding office, as well as the media that supports them is staggering. And it is almost never given with proof. It's a form of character assassination that's gone so far beyond the pale, it's finally starting to lose any weight. We're finally starting to get to the point where if somebody accuses somebody else of being an ist or an ism, they're simply ignored. It's taken as a sign of a losing argument. Which is sad, because actual violent racists are a problem that should be dealt with as harshly as possible.

We're talking about irrational, hyperbolic, divisive, and uncharacteristically desperate behavior on the side of the Dems that made it quite clear that they didn't give a fuck about anything but winning, and they didn't care who they hurt to make that happen. On the flipside, the "hurt" was mean words from Trump, who was simply being the same Trump he's been since the 80's and before. Add that to policies that require a huge amount of taxes against the American Worker but no consideration for them, no message of hope whatsoever, merely a, "You should vote for us, because THEY are Hitler!" and you'll start to understand better why Trump won.

But, if you're on the left, you only saw your side, and you may even believe in the policy standards of the DNC, in which case, rather than admitting that the rest of the nation prefers to remain a nation, and a nation that looks after it's own people, it's easier to say "racist, sexist, etc." than face the facts.
Member
Posts: 57,901
Joined: Dec 3 2008
Gold: 286.00
Apr 7 2020 10:54am
Quote (djman72 @ Apr 7 2020 09:55am)
Sanders is no longer a viable option.

We have Trump and Biden.

Shit Hoagie and Shit Sandwich.


Pizza sauce or canned mushroom gravy?
Member
Posts: 66,666
Joined: May 17 2005
Gold: 17,384.69
Apr 7 2020 07:28pm
Member
Posts: 52,226
Joined: Jan 3 2009
Gold: 8,902.00
Apr 7 2020 07:44pm
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Apr 7 2020 08:28pm)


lol
Member
Posts: 54,187
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
Apr 7 2020 08:33pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ 7 Apr 2020 17:48)
I don't believe I even understand what that means. I've seen a lot of election campaigns, and most boil down to a central strategy. The "shitshow" with Trump in 2016 might appear differently to me than you.

The DNC and Clinton started by throwing quite literally everything they could at him and hoping something would stick. When it didn't, they lost. Why? On the political side, the had very little of substance to offer. There was a lot about removing the voice of white people, granting more positions to non white people. Hiking up taxes and fees on all fossil fuels and natural gases even higher. Preventing new pipelines (oil and natural gas) and potentially even dismantling current pipelines. Adopting a far broader open borders policy during a decade of increased terrorist attack in the EU which already has similar policies, etc. On the social side of things you had them doing everything they could to try to tie him to the KKK and requiring that he not only disavow, but apologize for actions of alleged white supremacist fringes that he had nothing to do with. Meantime, they lauded the efforts of communist anarchists like Antifa in their "fight against fascism" even though it wasn't fascism, but both liberty and capitalism that was being harmed by the property damage and concerted moblike attacks of the groups.

On the flipside, you had Trump and the RNC pointing out everywhere the DNC and it's nominee had failed and how they'd do better, and the specific policies they'd use to do so. They talked about tightening the border security to reduce external terror and drug threats, work to insure equality of opportunity, rather than inherently racist and sexist equality of outcome policies, reduce taxes on primary power sources and expand those sources so they become a much lower percentage of the working class's expenditures. There was a lot of talk about reduction in regulations that favored massive corporations and crippled small businesses, and promised an "America First" approach to international trade that would favor the American Worker, rather than the sweatshop slave labor of compulsory work portions of China. They also soundly denounced all violent fringe groups, be they antifa or some white supremacist or BLM or any other who wanted to hurt people and damage property. From a reasoned perspective, the promises of the RNC and Trump were a much better bet. And shock of all shockers, rather than promptly doing the exact opposite of what was promised, they proceeded to work towards fulfilling those promises, which is rather astounding.

Regarding Republican Primaries, Trump just made fun of everyone else while harping on his 6 basic talking points and playing the crowd until his popularity grew enough that everyone else dropped out. I mean, that's the real boil down. There was some interplay between losing candidates that was rather nasty. But for Trump's part, he mercilessly mocked everyone else while bragging on himself. Which is par for the course, as he's been doing exactly the same thing regarding quite literally EVERYTHING since the 80's (and probably before). That his tactics are considered "nasty" is complete BS. He wasn't accusing people of sexual scandals or getting "anonymous sources" to exemplify that, which WAS done by the DNC against him (notice how all that mysteriously went away without a single court appearance?). They even went so far as to bring out a 40 year old porn star who had consensual sex with Trump, then accepted money in exchange for a NDA, which she violated. Was any crime committed in Trump banging a skank? No. Did it alter ANYONE'S view of an extremely public figure who's been a known womanizer longer than the skank has been alive? Nope. What was the only thing accomplished? A 40 year old porn star who's numbers (and profits) had gone to shit suddenly became the center of attention long enough to make millions. Great job! So I dunno, claims of dirty behavior... The piss dossier? Good grief. The list goes on and on. And let's not even talk about the DNC's actions against ol' Bernie.

Thus far, I see no real change from last election, and COVID19 will likely just become the new piss dossier/sexual allegations "scandals", with the economic impact of the virus being used as "proof" that the economic policies that have led to the absolute boom of the US economy over the last 3 years really being something that has "crashed" it.



Wow, what a weird wall of text. While I agree with quite some points, many other points you make are outright ridiculous. To pick just one example, look at the bolded point: during the final stages of the primaries, when only himself and Cruz were left, Trump spread the malicious and insane rumor that Ted Cruz' father was an accomplice of the JFK assassin.
https://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/05/trump-ted-cruz-father-222730

Not a "nasty" tactic at all, huh?

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Apr 7 2020 08:33pm
Member
Posts: 49,896
Joined: Jun 19 2006
Gold: 3.88
Apr 7 2020 08:43pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Apr 8 2020 12:33pm)
Wow, what a weird wall of text. While I agree with quite some points, many other points you make are outright ridiculous. To pick just one example, look at the bolded point: during the final stages of the primaries, when only himself and Cruz were left, Trump spread the malicious and insane rumor that Ted Cruz' father was an accomplice of the JFK assassin.
https://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/05/trump-ted-cruz-father-222730

Not a "nasty" tactic at all, huh?


He also said horrible things about mcain.
Member
Posts: 54,187
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
Apr 7 2020 08:47pm
Quote (Plaguefear @ 8 Apr 2020 04:43)
He also said horrible things about mcain.


It's a stretch, but with enough goodwill, one could excuse the things he said about McCain as judgement calls. With the Cruz-JFK assassination story, not even that is possible.
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1365836593660366136625001Next
Closed New Topic New Poll