Are you saying the population needs to have better living standards and be better people to begin with so that prisoners are less terrible and easier to rehabilitate?

yes. for a start job placement programs so when they get out they have actual employment opportunities. housing would be grand too, sticking them back in the ghetto as dependents on their families is another large strain. maybe better tax credits for employers to employ ex cons.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Aug 13 2020 01:46pm

Would it cost more than effectively lifetime incarceration? That shits pretty expensive.

I imagine a major problem is that they lack the relevant skill set required to obtain meaningful employment, along with the fact that low-skill occupations are going to put a premium on honesty and diligence.

Ive never really understood this. Like, we already use prison labor. Why not train them in more skilled positions and get more out of them whole training them for release in the process.

In Cali inmates fight fires but can't be official fire fighters after due to their criminal record. Makes no sense. Our prison system is full of contradictions

yes. prisoners are expensive and extremely cheap at the same time. between private prisons KILLING the average cost and a general lack of quality healthcare, low quality food, usage of prisoner labor to create revenue, and dirt cheap clothing and bedding, etc.

but that doesnt address the fact that only a small percentage of criminals would see a meaningful decline in the recidivism to justify the costs. and without drastic changes to underlying conditions it wont act as a cheese cloth each time removing more and more from the population at a rate to justify the costs either. you're taking a batch of full strength each pour as the system repeatedly fills itself.

plus any really good model requires tax credits on release for job programs, housing, etc. we sit them then dump them into the public.

as with most CJ problems the best cost to effect model starts with attacking underling causes, try and job place people before they commit crimes.



in most of the places in the US immigrant cash labor is used to save costs in droves. tax credited job programs with varying training programs could reduce recidivism enough to offset a decent chunk of costs.

From what I've been told private prisons get to pick and choose only the best inmates, provide far less services, send a profit to the administration, and have higher recidivism rates than public, so it's not really fair to say they're killing the average cost unless I see the specific numbers.

The most effective way would undoubtedly be to fix the underlying system. Reform drug laws, equalize the unconscious bias that gets some groups more time than others for equal offenses, etc. etc.

Honestly, one thing that the last few months have shown me is that a bad police force is one of the roots of a shocking number of our problems.

you need specific numbers to show that private prisons cost less than public ones? i dont see why. we're talking about a system where people get better treatment, so the prisoners in public and private prisons would all be subject to that upgrade. OR, since its true many private prisons take the cream of the crop, and spend nothing on them, that means the best candidates for a Scandinavian model system would be going from the cheapest model to a more expensive one.

but the entire conversation of costs is rather moot, the inputs into the system make a Scandinavian model unworkable. we have a too violent population of inputs with crime too cemented into their value system as a means to make money. Scandinavians are simply different people. we could use some of the tools they use, such as restorative justice therapy.

as to police, i not only disagree that they're the root, but they're not even the stem or leaves, they're the fruit. policing needs to be fixed, mainly because the costs to reduce incidents would not only make cops safer but also be inexpensive compared to fixing actual roots of the issue. the thousands of dead we have by police hands are by-and-large justified killings (suicide by cop, armed criminals, etc). and when we control for that we're left with MAYBE a few hundred unjustified killings per year in a country of 400m where hundreds of thousands go to prison for crimes they're 100% guilty of. problem, yes. root problem? the math simply cannot support that.

anyways: stats



but snipa, u dumb, this means they cost more. yes, not because they spend more on the prisoners, because they send profit upstairs and charge tax payers for setup costs of the prisons themselves. we're talking spending on the inmate's needs, not cost to taxpayer inherantly. take 10% profit off the top and they're already cheaper, and 10% is likely very low for a profit margin.

also note this stat means we spend about 16,425$/inmate/year. hard to imagine any better system being anywhere near that cheap.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Aug 14 2020 06:03am

So apparently an Infowars reporter named Millie Weaver was supposed to host a first screen of her conspiracy theory documentary "Shadowgate" alleging a deep state conspiracy in the government
and she and her husband were in the beginning of the stream today when their house was raided and they were both arrested and hauled away, with the officer only saying they were being held 'on a grand jury indictment for burglary, tampering with evidence and domestic violence
which besides the incredibly suspicious timing of it begs what imaginable facts could support such charges, especially domestic violence charges and burglary for both a husband and wife, both held without bail during a time in which basically everyone short of capital murderers get released on bail
naturally, this has driven conspiracy theorists into absolute overdrive. They were awaiting this documentary to begin with, now the people about to unveil it were literally hauled away by government agents with no real explanation

the booking info is public and shows them in jail, and its imaginable they pulled some kind of stunt by knowing when they were going to be arrested and staging their documentary release at the same time for dramatic effect, but that's pretty far fetched without, well, a conspiracy
she claims during the arrest that she has no idea what this charges are about and was never given any mail or warning about any proceedings against her, repeatedly saying she has no idea whats going on, and that the officers refuse to tell her what its about

https://twitter.com/AdanSalazarWins/status/1294310349773168640