Problem is failure to integrate a generation of imported labour that was settled together to work in factories needed for post-WW2 recovery. They had less education and came from poorer backgrounds and as a result were easier to manipulate.

The situation now is their kids grew up in these ghettos and failed to integrate into the general society of the country that hosts them and live in their own world within countries they live in.

Nothing to do with being from one country, or being of certain religion or any other xenophobic or racial stereotypes.

Eh Netherlands successfully integrated tens of thousands Muslim Indonesians who became rightful citizens and do not riot.

Baltic countries are trying to integrate their Russian Orthodox communities left stranded after Soviet Union collapse.

Russians integrated eg Tatar Muslims who used to murder Russians centuries ago and own Russians as slaves. Chechens are in the process of being integrated after Chechen wars of the 1990s.

Assimilation though is whole other problem and should not be confused with integration.

then why is it only certain groups causing trouble?

places like france or germany have taken in people from many countries, however nobody ever talks about greeks, italians, portuguese, japanese, vietnanese among others

its only middle eastern and african migrants causing the trouble

they clearly never wanted to integrate, they just want the lifestyle compared to their shitholes

these immigrants arrived in such large numbers and immediately created their own little bubbles in the large cities, that process made any kind of integration optional at best

as i said, these people clearly dont want to be fully integrated french, but its also just not necessary

you can live your entire life there, barely speak french, never work and still be fine

immigration needs many factors to be successful, proper documentation, cultural fit, desire to integrate, managable numbers, work to name a few

the process i described above needs to be impossible and in countries with successful migration that is clearly the case

Yeah, Tatars are funny to conversate with. They are going mental if you call them Tatars (if they are not Muslim), they consider themselves Russians and will break your face if you question it. Zero space for nationalism.

I do not agree.

1) nobody talks about those minorities you mentioned TODAY. Japanese were literally put in concentration camps by the Americans back in the days as it was assumed 3rd generation American citizens were not integrated enough for their interest to be aligned with foreign policy du jour. Vietnamese were “gooks” and “Vietcongs” until it faded out of fashion as generations changed. US has for decades struggled with nationality based mafias (eg Russian mob, Irish mob, Italian mob).

2) You really need to go country by country and assess every scenario independently to track the roots. Eg Belgium and Congolese. French and Algerian/Moroccan community. It is interesting that eg Lebanese and Tunisian community in France is integrated much better than eg Algerian and Moroccan. You need to dig into the history to understand why that happened.

3) integration is the job of the receiving country. You need to spend money and resources to teach people language, customs and cultural norms and police them until they are integrated enough to accept their new surroundings. This was not done in several cases with several colonies as people were solving short term problems with long term consequences.

Again, you cannot generalize migration issues into black and white. If France wants to deal with issues of ghettos they should now spend money to integrate those ghettos. Americans did it with French and Italian mobs, Portugal integrated their Angolan colonial refugees, what makes you say France is special and can’t do it?

This post was edited by Malopox on Jul 5 2023 02:50pm

Not entirely IMO. There's a lot of complexity to it, and cultural norms as well as individual effort by those emigrating has so much to do with this. I speak as an immigrant who came to the US as a kid and have seen this in my life and dozens of extended family members who are 1st & 2nd gen immigrants. What I find is it varies largely but integration is extremely important for people, particularly if they want to move within the socioeconomic pyramid. Some parents and cultures understand this better than other ones and strive for it. You look at the typical Chinese or Indian person in US/Canada and they are working in white collar jobs, highly paid, are highly integrated, and it has nothing to do with the host country's efforts.

You compare that to other cultures and that's not the case. Around where I live in the inner city we have a lot of Puerto Rican people, who can legally come here to the US but really struggle as a demographic to move out of the lower, middle-lower classes. So if you compare Puerto Ricans to Indians for example there's really no disparity in how the state focuses on the respective integration, the overwhelming factor making the difference is cultural.

I suspect at least to some extent, western European countries have similar drivers.

1) awful example, we are talking about war here

of course there are sentiments towards people you were recently at war with

2) not really, northern african migrants are consistent troublemakers in europe and the two countries where integration should be easy for them (france, belgium) are somehow the worst

3) 1000% wrong

if you want to stay its exclusively your duty to adapt, sorry but the natives are under no obligation to serve it all on a silver platter

this is the problem with this "just show up" migration, people just appear in france or germany with no clue, no skills, no plan and (nowadays) no papers

there are a zillion sources out there to learn languages

this nonsense discussion does not even exist outside of the west, literally everywhere else you have no choice but to have a job, make a living and speak the language ASAP

fail to do that and get left behind and/or kicked out immediately

of course these migrants can just leave france, if its so terrible, but in africa they would actually have to work or starve

i studied spanish for two years to be ready for my move

This post was edited by JohnnyMcCoy on Jul 5 2023 04:06pm

I hate erdogen, and i hold a 100 year grudge over the first world war, like all australians.
Let me know when you get over 9/11.

According to the President of Azerbaijan, Paris "still interferes in the internal affairs of other countries"

“France, falsely positioning itself as a defender of human rights and international law, continues to interfere in the internal affairs of other countries. The recent withdrawal of French troops from Mali and Burkina Faso has once again demonstrated that France's outrageous policy of neo-colonialism in Africa is doomed to failure. Unfortunately, France is trying to impose the same vicious practice in the South Caucasus by supporting Armenian separatism in the Karabakh region of Azerbaijan and using geopolitical rivalry, foreign military presence and the colonial policy of orientalism," he said at a ministerial meeting of the Coordinating Bureau of the Non-Aligned Movement.

Aliyev stressed that France must apologize for the colonial past and colonial crimes, as well as "acts of genocide against member states of the Non-Aligned Movement in Africa, Southeast Asia and other places."

“An apology to the millions of people whom his [French President Emmanuel Macron's] predecessors colonized, used as slaves, killed, tortured and humiliated will not only be an acknowledgment of France’s historical guilt, but will also help her overcome the consequences of a deep political, social and humanitarian crisis, in which she ended up after the brutal murder of an Algerian teenager," the head of state said.

Source: TASS

https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/18193989

The problem is migrants burning and looting in France and not me being scared of that because I don't live there.

Y we know, you live in some bulgarian/hungarian shithole and you dont want anyone to know.
Meanwhile you are saying "migrants" are "burning and looting in France" ...