i'm in perfect shape, your concern is misplaced, but still appreciated. i'm merely making the point that you're hilariously wrong about what progressivism is, that's all.

THE INHUMANITY! Trying to convince voters in a swing state that she's further to the right than she actually is (or vice versa) is very common. EVERY politician does this. Mitt Romney tacked to the right in the primaries and then moved to the left in the general.

Again, look at her record on healthcare, education, and women's rights. Look at the votes she took on taxes and SCOTUS justices. In what world is that not progressive by American standards?



In broad terms, progressivism is moving things forward, regressivism is moving things backward, and conservatism is maintaining the status quo. In American politics, progressivism has certain political positions associated with it. On domestic policy, Hillary Clinton is the text book definition of a "progressive." Now, if you want to get into purity tests, I suppose you could find positions here and there that don't match someone like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren. But that's rather silly, don't you think?

This post was edited by thundercock on Mar 8 2020 08:26pm

your healthcare system is a complete mess, clinton publicly rejected both sanders' and warren's plan, higher education is an expensive privilege, and on women's rights the US is much worse than most EU countries, with abortion for example being under serious threat in large parts of america - and here i thought clinton and biden actually got things done - unlike other candidates. oh right, crime bill / iraq war / student loan debt... how 'progressive'...

This post was edited by fender on Mar 8 2020 08:32pm

Without them, we'd be even worse off...

Check your privilege.

that depends. if the alternative is republicans, sure. if the alternative is principled progressives, no. 2016 / 2020 were chances to create a TRUE alternative, to start regaining control over your politics, to reject the tiny window that your corporate owned establishment so graciously allows you to "choose" from - but you're content just picking the 'slightly more agreeable blue establishment shit' flavour over the 'unapologetically red establishment shit' flavour, because you were successfully brainwashed into thinking what every other developed country of the world offers their citizens is somehow scary, radical, and privileged, lol...

I mean, that's the reality we live in. You ARE coming from a place of privilege because you have all the things we don't and you shit on us for working towards that goal. Prior to Obamacare, you could pay into health insurance your whole life and then be rejected for having some sort of pre-existing condition. To you, that might not seem like a big deal.... but to the person with a chronic condition, it's a MASSIVE deal. A lot of Democrats lost their jobs fighting for that and to shit on them and call them "corporate owned establishment" is horseshit IMO.

Each and every election, we have some far right ultra conservative guy and some far left ultra liberal guy running in the primaries. Before Bernie Sanders was Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel. Before that was Jesse Jackson. The list goes on and it's not like contemporary progressives are anything special. At the end of the day, they failed to sell their ideas to the American people. They failed to make the necessary connections in order to build a winning coalition.

I'd also argue that left wing ideology isn't a panacea to all of our problems either but that's a discussion for another time.

I agree it was a huge step in the right direction, generics are the next big step.



Give me an example of ANYONE on the left supporting radical islams stances on these issues, ill wait.
Last i checked the biggest opposition these stances see are from those radical right wing organisations like amnesty international..

This post was edited by Plaguefear on Mar 8 2020 09:42pm

Accidental double.

This post was edited by Plaguefear on Mar 8 2020 09:37pm

Remember when the leftist organizers of the Women's March deliberately chose a hijab-wearing muslima - THE symbol for the oppression of women in muslim societies - as one of their major faces/symbols/standard-bearers?



Needless to say that Linda Sarsour, one of the most high-profile apologists of islamism and proponents of the political islam - was the co-chair of the Women's March in both 2017 and 2019 before finally being forced to step down by some liberal figures.

Here is a little comment from an American muslima on why the headscarf was a deeply flawed symbol for the Women's March:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/womens-march-why-use-the-headscarf-viel-as-a-symbol_b_5884a1ede4b0111ea60b971c





I'm still waiting for evidence for this claim.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 8 2020 10:20pm

wrong. i 'shit on you' establishment shills for doing the exact opposite. how often will you people fall for the empty 'change - this time for real though' promises by people controlled by those who make a fortune of opposing any such change? apparently you haven't been fooled often enough yet. 'corporate owned establishment' is not an insult - it's just a (well documented) fact. look at who clinton's / biden's donors are, and you will know why he sided with credit card companies over students / why they don't support anything that really challenges the insurance industy and big pharma / support wars based on fabricated evidence.

the reason the left 'fails to sell their ideas' to the american people is exactly the same you constantly label sanders an 'ultra liberal' and his ideas 'crazy' and 'radical', even though they are universally accepted policies in literally every single one of your peer nations: propaganda perpetuated by corporate media - and people like you, who completely buy into it, like the idiotic fearmongering about 'socialism', and rejecting completely reasonable policies as 'extreme'.

it successfully divided the country to a degree where people think it actually makes sense to subscribe to THEIR corporate puppets over the OTHER side's corporate puppets - to deliberately choose an evil because the alternatives are either "a greater evil" or "starving in a socialist utopia that could never ever work and is completely unrealistic", ignoring the dozens of peer countries where people do NOT avoid getting tested for covid-19 out of fear it would bankrupt them, where life expectancy is NOT falling, where income inequality is NOT that egregious, where ONE job is enough to live, where poor people can get a college education...

you know what's ACTUALLY crazy? ideas like 'trillion dollar forever wars are simply necessary, but universal healthcare is simply not affordable' / 'corporate taxcuts will trickle down and benefit everyone, but adequate minimum wages are dangerous and communist' / 'fossil fuel subsidies are reasonable - but protecting the environment and promoting renewable energy will crash the economy' / 'bailing out banks is something we just have to do - but bailing out students would set a bad examples' - and countless other examples of late stage capitalism's worst symptoms. you might now claim you find that disgusting and objectionable as well - but a vote speaks louder than words...



i've been waiting longer: http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=82747482&f=119&p=555662223

This post was edited by fender on Mar 8 2020 10:16pm