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Mar 5 2020 12:04pm
Quote (thesnipa @ 5 Mar 2020 19:00)
i'd say it challenges how we define support, definitions cant really be refuted as they're arbitrary in this context. Did HRC get the vocal support of the oligarchy via media and more corporate donors? yes. but that's not all support is.

as to corporations looking at Trump as a 50:50 candidate, strongly disagree. he was pro tax cuts and pro deregulation. his vague calls for getting "tough on Ghina" weren't going to offset a major tax decrease for the corporations. obviously China was a concern, but there were so many signals showing he'd have some real positives for corporations. but in 2016 if a corporation voiced this they got #boycott____ trending and a stock selloff.

Trump received the same corporate support that he did a silent voting block. obviously not at the exact same ratio, but the concept is the same.


I mean, he obviously got some corporate support - petrochemical companies would still very much prefer a terrible republican over even a corporate-friendly democrat, but it definitely did feel to me as if Trump struggled more to attract big donors than the average GOP candidate.
But yeah, publicity and silent support definitely was a factor, so we cant know the extent of the reluctance.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 5 2020 12:05pm
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Mar 5 2020 12:13pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 5 2020 12:04pm)
I mean, he obviously got some corporate support - petrochemical companies would still very much prefer a terrible republican over even a corporate-friendly democrat, but it definitely did feel to me as if Trump struggled more to attract big donors than the average GOP candidate.
But yeah, publicity and silent support definitely was a factor, so we cant know the extent of the reluctance.


ya but he didnt need to pull in corporate cash. like what would he have even done with it?

his whole brand depended on staying a grassroots for-the-common-man candidate to work. and it did, where common men change the vote in the rust belt, florida, etc.

imagine seeing "we're gonna bring your jobs back" commercials in Michigan sponsored by the corporations that outsourced the jobs. it wouldnt work.

instead Trump had the GOP flood downballot candidates who were pro trump to build groundswell without getting his hands dirty on the corporate cash directly. the RNC certainly wasn't hurting for cash, and the few times they did cry about not getting enough cash funneled it was only because they wrote him off and wanted to hold onto the legislature. instead he won the states they wrote off and sent down what he could with a winning strategy. i remember at the time the "he should send it all down ballot, he's doomed" narratives were everywhere, calling Trump selfish for holding onto anything because they thought he was done.
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Mar 5 2020 12:28pm


Bloomberg's campaign expenditure vs the GDP of the region he won delegates from.
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Mar 5 2020 02:35pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 4 2020 10:35pm)
She raised nearly 2x he did and it wasn’t as a result of some great grassroots efforts. She was the anointed one in 2016 there’s no question about that.


Most news media today is owned by large corporations, it’s naive to think those interests don’t bleed into what they tell the masses. I mean just look at how Barnie was treated the last two election cycles.


We all know the fictional oligarchs wanted CNN to run Trump's rallies nonstop, and Morning Joe to have him on every morning.

They also hate the tax and regulation cuts. And the bloated defense budget.

This post was edited by IceMage on Mar 5 2020 02:36pm
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Mar 5 2020 02:57pm
Quote (IceMage @ Mar 5 2020 02:35pm)
We all know the fictional oligarchs wanted CNN to run Trump's rallies nonstop, and Morning Joe to have him on every morning.

They also hate the tax and regulation cuts. And the bloated defense budget.


monica.
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Mar 5 2020 03:01pm
Quote (IceMage @ Mar 5 2020 03:35pm)
We all know the fictional oligarchs wanted CNN to run Trump's rallies nonstop, and Morning Joe to have him on every morning.

They also hate the tax and regulation cuts. And the bloated defense budget.



What Trump did to benefit them subsequently doesn’t change the fact that most of them wanted Hillary to win in 2016. I mean you routinely heard that if trumps elected the market will implode. It’s understandable how the ultra rich would oppose Trump with his ‘America first’ doctrine.

Trade war sucks for multi national corps who want to either offshore production or to import cheap labor so choosing Hillary was a naturalLy easy choice.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Mar 5 2020 03:02pm
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Mar 5 2020 03:09pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 5 2020 04:01pm)
What Trump did to benefit them subsequently doesn’t change the fact that most of them wanted Hillary to win in 2016. I mean you routinely heard that if trumps elected the market will implode. It’s understandable how the ultra rich would oppose Trump with his ‘America first’ doctrine.

Trade war sucks for multi national corps who want to either offshore production or to import cheap labor so choosing Hillary was a natural easy choice.


A couple things:

1. Just because billionaires have a preference doesn't mean they are pulling the strings at CNN, MSNBC, Washington Post, or Wallstreet Journal. I watched CNN and Morning Joe throughout 2015 and 2016... he was on constantly.
2. Just because billionaires thought he might damage the economy(although I think this claim is mostly a strawman) doesn't mean they don't love his tax cuts, regulation cuts, defense spending, etc.

One thing I'll give Bernie is that he's a real populist. He isn't scaring billionaires because of his unhinged behavior like Trump did... he's advocating policies which will cost them big time.
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Mar 5 2020 03:12pm
Quote (IceMage @ Mar 5 2020 03:09pm)
A couple things:

1. Just because billionaires have a preference doesn't mean they are pulling the strings at CNN, MSNBC, Washington Post, or Wallstreet Journal. I watched CNN and Morning Joe throughout 2015 and 2016... he was on constantly.
2. Just because billionaires thought he might damage the economy(although I think this claim is mostly a strawman) doesn't mean they don't love his tax cuts, regulation cuts, defense spending, etc.

One thing I'll give Bernie is that he's a real populist. He isn't scaring billionaires because of his unhinged behavior like Trump did... he's advocating policies which will cost them big time.


i still have yet to see much evidence that billionaires feared a market crash if trump was elected. the media said it, but they said a lot of things. people suggested we'd be at war with multiple countries. people suggested Trump would bog down the DOJ to drag out an HRC investigation. etc etc etc

it was clear he wanted tax cuts, military spending, and general deregulation. he got a massive uptick in the stock markets once elected literally a year before any of that was even delivered on. people bought stocks just on the promises.
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Mar 5 2020 03:13pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Mar 5 2020 04:12pm)
i still have yet to see much evidence that billionaires feared a market crash if trump was elected. the media said it, but they said a lot of things. people suggested we'd be at war with multiple countries. people suggested Trump would bog down the DOJ to drag out an HRC investigation. etc etc etc

it was clear he wanted tax cuts, military spending, and general deregulation. he got a massive uptick in the stock markets once elected literally a year before any of that was even delivered on. people bought stocks just on the promises.


I thought Paul Krugman represented every Democrat, liberal, and billionaire in America?
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Mar 5 2020 03:17pm
Quote (IceMage @ Mar 5 2020 03:13pm)
I thought Paul Krugman represented every Democrat, liberal, and billionaire in America?


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/opinion/election-night-2016/paul-krugman-the-economic-fallout

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So we are very probably looking at a global recession, with no end in sight. I suppose we could get lucky somehow. But on economics, as on everything else, a terrible thing has just happened.


lmao

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