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Jul 29 2020 12:33pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Jul 29 2020 01:20pm)
im simply a man of science observing devastating effects some drugs and cocktails produce and asking the question how can we reduce this, and is it even a good idea to reduce it. for all i know as a result more people may die by reducing drug cocktails. what training psychiatrists receive is relevant info, but them being a MD doesnt really address my question.

are psychiatric medications over prescribed? how can psychologists help share the load and avoid medication? is there or should there be liability around prescriptions of these medications? etc, all relevant question that dont require i be an expert in the field.

and for the record i prefer to be described as an expert in gardening, rather than an armchair lawyer or my dayjob.


Sure, those are all interesting and valid questions, but they're all questions that require a much more in-depth knowledge of the field. There's a fine line between asking specific and good-faith questions about the health of a scientific field, and asking questions simply for the sake of creating doubt and stirring up dissidence. I find in almost all cases questions about psychiatry is the latter.


Squirrels literally ate 100+ of my tomatoes in a week. I am gonna have virtually zero yield because they picked them dry. If you're an expert HOW DO I KEEP SQUIRRELS AWAY!

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Jul 29 2020 12:34pm
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Jul 29 2020 12:36pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Jul 29 2020 01:24pm)
i dont know where u got literature from at all, that wasnt even my focus.

psychiatrists do all of the training a psycologist does and then more, correct? under grad in psychology, then additional medical training.

and in any case im arguing for more psychologist, despite their issues with replication, because my problem is the drugs psychiatrists recommend. that's my focus, not necessarily journals.

i could go into 5d chess mode with gender specialists specifically with indoctrination in academia, but that's rather fruitless conversation for a myriad of reasons.


Psychology would be a shitty undergrad for a medical doctor IMO. Most of my coworkers were biologist or chemist. Biology is most straightforward in terms of prereqs. Just asked the guy i work with now and he majored in biology and said for anybody considering medical school, don't do it.
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Jul 29 2020 12:40pm
Quote (Skinned @ Jul 29 2020 01:36pm)
Psychology would be a shitty undergrad for a medical doctor IMO. Most of my coworkers were biologist or chemist. Biology is most straightforward in terms of prereqs. Just asked the guy i work with now and he majored in biology and said for anybody considering medical school, don't do it.


The more physiology and anatomy you can take in undergrad the better, at least for being a doctor. Being a doctor now is all about understanding the biochemistry. I genuinely think Ph.D biochemists would make better doctors than most general practitioners, at least if you gave the Ph.D's the patient training.

It took me 3 different doctors across 5 years to finally get a glucose tolerance test for hypoglycemia I've known I've had for 5 years. Most GPs are terrible.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Jul 29 2020 12:41pm
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Jul 29 2020 12:49pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jul 29 2020 01:33pm)
Sure, those are all interesting and valid questions, but they're all questions that require a much more in-depth knowledge of the field. There's a fine line between asking specific and good-faith questions about the health of a scientific field, and asking questions simply for the sake of creating doubt and stirring up dissidence. I find in almost all cases questions about psychiatry is the latter.


Squirrels literally ate 100+ of my tomatoes in a week. I am gonna have virtually zero yield because they picked them dry. If you're an expert HOW DO I KEEP SQUIRRELS AWAY!


my question stems from 1 acquaintance who committed suicide, 1 that attempted, and 2 others than almost attempted. all depressed, but none suicidal pre-cocktail.

buy a trap for the tree rats, 22 = dinner, drive to the country = soft hearted wife. i do a lot of driving. trapped 16 chipmunks so far this year and a very angry mink.
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Jul 29 2020 03:41pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Jul 29 2020 07:54am)
i have a general question:

1. do therapists then deserve a modicum of legal responsibility if pill cocktails lead to suicides in patients not previously suicidal?

2. how do we give therapists agency to prescribe hormones to children to block puberty if their entire field is basically guesswork?

i personally think therapists need major oversight in pill cocktails prescribed to treat mild to medium depression when it leads to self harm. and i personally think most of gender science is simply about harm reduction for a group that is highly suicidal statistically. essentially guesswork to try and reduce a glaring problem. and id be fine with this is super pro trans advocates didnt act like gender therapists were working off solid science.

in essence why do we give therapists a lack of responsibility and also legal credence? i personally dont see much more validity in all of psychology than astrology. oh wow u called out that a person who's father left them and who's husband cheated on them has trust issues, spot on!


I think having some skepticism of therapy and psychiatry makes sense, but I also feel that it's likely that you feel the strength of your position because of personal intersections between either yourself or people you know with the mental health field that probably weren't positive. I should note that while I'm still in the middle of earning my degree to become a licensed therapist, the program requirements involve us serving as therapists for many people as part of our training, skills development, and supervision. So my response here is both informed by, and biased, as a result of this.

Therapists aren't legally allowed to be involved in the prescription or management of medication. That's reserved for psychiatrists who have a much more extensive educational background with a medical degree, and their internship/externship involves helping people navigating much more acute displays of mental health. Someone in my position would never prescribe medication, encourage a client to stop/lessen a medication, or anything else. All therapists would do is help someone figure out what the best path forward for them to take would be, whether that be starting medication, stopping, switching, etc. All of that though would be a conversation with their psychiatrist and we'd just support them along that journey. That said, neither the psychiatrist nor a therapist are held liable should a client die by suicide, even if the medication that the person was taking had an increased risk of suicidal ideation. The only way either a psychiatrist or therapist would end up in hot water would be if the person on the medication disclosed to them that they were actively suicidal (intent, plans, means), and they did nothing about it. We have mandatory reporting laws that require us to get a person who is actively suicidal some help, and failure to do so can end up in a lawsuit and/or losing your license. The other aspect would be if the psychiatrist failed to provide proper informed consent, meaning that they didn't talk with the person about the increased risk of suicide and didn't say to "stop taking the medication immediately and come back in" if thoughts of suicide got worse.

In terms of hormones, therapists aren't actually prescribing the hormones. The current system exists where only a doctor, usually an endocrinologist, is the one who is able to prescribe hormones and who continues on with the client to manage them over time. However, largely because of health insurance providers wanting to avoid covering hormone therapy, the process necessitates that someone meet with a therapist first who is able to provide a letter saying that the client has a gender identity that they are both "insistent and persistent about", that they meet DSM-V criteria for Gender Dysphoria, and that they are able to provide informed consent about the benefits/risks of hormones, etc.

It's all much more complex, and helpful, than astrology. ;)
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Jul 31 2020 11:14am
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/georgia-student-expelled-racist-social-media-reinstated-school-finds-she-n1235138
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/georgia-college-student-who-used-racial-slur-social-media-post-n1225936
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1289244415211343872

A georgia student was expelled and the victim of cancel culture destroying her life after a picture circulated with text superimposed over her reading "Bear down on these niggers" and doxxing her, demanding her career be ended.
As it turns out, the guy who posted it had simply edited a photo of her to insert the racist text, and it was 100% a hoax / smear.

Quote
"Today Wesleyan administrators learned of racist statements and photos posted on a Wesleyan student’s social media," the school said in a Facebook statement Thursday. "Such views have no place on our campus or within our community and we will act decisively when confronted by them."
One of the posts reportedly said, “Bear down on these n-words," according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
The college said it quickly launched an investigation into the posts "that led to the expulsion of the student, effective immediately."
"Wesleyan will not tolerate racist behavior in any form," the statement read.


Quote
Wesleyan College in Macon, Georgia, said Tuesday a student expelled for racist social media was reinstated after an appeal revealed the woman did not post the content.
"We received new information showing that the student did not post the racist content in early June," the school said in a statement. "We will ensure she transitions seamlessly back into campus life when the fall semester begins. She has our full support."


That's the kind of due process you can expect from a college in 2020
Guilty until proven innocent. Your life destroyed until you can clear your name
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Jul 31 2020 06:49pm
https://www.foxnews.com/us/federal-appeals-court-vacates-boston-marathon-bomber-dzhokhar-tsarnaevs-death-sentence

apparently if you bomb innocent people in an area you can claim you’re unable to get a fair trial there :wacko:
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Jul 31 2020 07:11pm
Quote (excellence @ Jul 31 2020 08:49pm)
https://www.foxnews.com/us/federal-appeals-court-vacates-boston-marathon-bomber-dzhokhar-tsarnaevs-death-sentence

apparently if you bomb innocent people in an area you can claim you’re unable to get a fair trial there :wacko:


these pink haired judges need to be shot into space
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Jul 31 2020 09:18pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jul 29 2020 02:33pm)
Sure, those are all interesting and valid questions, but they're all questions that require a much more in-depth knowledge of the field. There's a fine line between asking specific and good-faith questions about the health of a scientific field, and asking questions simply for the sake of creating doubt and stirring up dissidence. I find in almost all cases questions about psychiatry is the latter.


Squirrels literally ate 100+ of my tomatoes in a week. I am gonna have virtually zero yield because they picked them dry. If you're an expert HOW DO I KEEP SQUIRRELS AWAY!


I hear deadly nightshade repels a lot of herbivores. Its notoriously hard to grow however.
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Aug 3 2020 09:11am
Fat politicians are confirmed to be more corrupt.
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/07/30/are-overweight-politicians-less-trustworthy
The more overweight the government, the more corrupt the country, according to a new study of 15 post-Soviet states. The study’s author, Pavlo Blavatskyy of Montpellier Business School in France, used an algorithm to analyse photographs of almost 300 cabinet ministers and estimate their body-mass index (BMI), a measure of obesity.
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