Its illogical because you expect Israel to care more for Palestinian civilians than Hamas do, even after Hamas murdered 1,300 innocent Israelis.

I'm assuming you are in favour of a ceasefire?

Explain what that looks like in practice. Does it involve Hamas' military capacity remaining intact?
If Israel does not dismantle Hamas' ability to attack, then nobody else will. So that threat will remain.

Is it acceptable for you to have Israelis live with that threat? Because they tried that. They left Gaza. The attacks on 7/10 were the results of that strategy.

I agree that civilian casualties are awful, for any peoples. But what alternative are you offering?
Simply saying that Israel should accept a truce with a murdering terrorist organisation whose mandate is the destruction of Israel, is illogical.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Oct 29 2023 07:53am

The unfortunately reality is that a lot of those hostages will not make it out alive, because, as everyone agrees, Hamas are barbaric.
As I understand it various countries are appealing to Hamas to free their citizens, but thats a fraction of the 222? (is it 222?) but understand beside this we are seeing 1000's of civilians being killed on the other side. The value of one life is being, and has been for some time been, weighed differently in Israel.

I can imagine Hamas sitting on some of those hostages for years (or killing them but not admitting to it, or killing them when Israel sends in special forces) either way we should all accept it is looking very very grim for the remaining hostages.

No matter what option Israel takes, they are all bad, no one is denying that, but that does not justify bombing civilians in response.

This post was edited by ferdia on Oct 29 2023 08:11am

Nope that is too generous for Hamas. The only barbarism here is your use of commas.

The high tech and civilized bombing campaign may also limit the hostages ability to make it out alive

Though to be fair, considering Israel knows exactly where every hamas militant and hideout in gaza is they probably know exactly where the hostages are as well and have avoided hitting them

It is too bad this amazingly accurate intel they have didn't translate to being able to prevent the Oct 7th attacks.

personal attacks are your go-to, no change.



You have worded this poorly, was this intentional

This post was edited by ferdia on Oct 29 2023 08:14am

Grammar is not personal.

Dodging the argument is your forte.

In what way?

Based on what happened, what we know, the intel was either not heeded or not properly reacted to, which is a separate point from being unable to prevent an attack.
Israel is a highly militarized and advanced nation, just like the US. While this attack is being called Israel's 9/11, Israel was warned days before hand, there are multiple interviews relating to this, from alot of people. I think it would factually incorrect to state that Israel would not be able to stop attacks like this. Are we saying that Iran's / other (not Hamas) method of attack is so sophisticated that Israel cant prevent attacks like this ? I dont believe it. Yes different tactic's were used, but no one on the ground ? we might find out in 25-50 years what happened (but we might not).

This post was edited by ferdia on Oct 29 2023 08:40am

I don't see the distinction, the attack happened so clearly they were unable to prevent it. To me this means either their intel is not as good as they claim or they allowed the attack to happen. If their intel is not as good as they claim, the current "targetted" bombing campaign is just an indiscriminate slaughter is it not?

And fun fact, the US was warned before 9/11 as well so the similarities abound. They were warned by Egypt as well actually, maybe people should start listening to those guys.

I don't understand what you mean regarding the sophistication of the attack? I don't disagree that Israel's has a superior military

The attack as i understand it was done differently from what hamas have historically been able to do, and there is talk that they were aided by foreign powers. lets stop here, i agree with most of what you post anyway.