Quote (Goomshill @ Oct 8 2023 11:09pm)

Its the same root illogic of all modern progressive liberalism: A total denial of responsibility and agency.
Here's a simple question: What can a Palestinian do, that you consider him to be responsible for?

If Palestinians can go out and slaughter hundreds of unarmed civilians, take women as sex slaves, massacre children, pillage and raid unchecked- and its all somehow Israel's fault- then what can Palestinians possibly do that they bear culpability for? If a Palestinian shows up at your door, pulls your family from your home and lops their heads off one by one, is he just acting on societal pressures and a product of circumstance? If a Palestinian rapes a young child, or throws a gay person off a roof, or blows himself up in a suicide attack. At what point can an action reach a level of barbarity that he somehow manages to bear personal culpability in your eyes? Because according to modern liberal theory, there is nothing a favored minority can possibly do, no crime, no terrorism, no act of butchery or even genocide at which point that person is treated as if they had any agency in their own actions. Whether its black mobs looting a store or carjacking people, or aliens crossing a border en masse, or muslims committing terrorist attacks, or Palestinians committing one of the worst acts of butchery in a developed country since the Holocaust- its always just someone's chickens coming home to roost, someone else's fault. Of course, not for the groups they disfavor, not for white people or jews or asians.

So again I ask, what heinous action could a Palestinian person take at which point they bear any responsibility? Do they need to kidnap a bus full of children and start a blood orgy of child rape, murder and cannibalism? Or if they were Jewish kids, would that just be decolonization? Or if they were gay kids, would that just be inconvenient and swept under the rug

Quote (JessiWan @ Oct 8 2023 09:33pm)

^ofthevoid is essentially saying that Israelis can act like ferocious animals just because they have been persecuted historically.

Quote (Bazi @ Oct 8 2023 10:30pm)

Focusing on rights isn’t myopic, rather doesn’t have to be. it just requires flexibility and not being emotionally tied to one idea or perspective

as egregious as it was 80 years ago, Israel fortunately had support of the super powers, and rightly so, allowing them not only to survive but to flourish and prosper.

They have continued to have the support of the super powers and as they became stronger have slowly yet consistently and illegally committed abuses/expansions spanning decades. These are not really up for debate and Israel themselves have largely conceded, alleging they would stop. They haven’t

One doesn’t have to take ‘sides’ in conflicts all the time. Israel is guilty of quite a few shenanigans over a significant length of time. Hamas is a radicalized scum organization that should be wiped off the planet but like the mob they stay in power because the only $$ that enter Palestine are through terrorist funding Iran. When you have a society beaten for generations and there is only one source of $$$ coming, this is the shit fest that happens.

Fortunately we live in America as civilians (most of us, I know there are some brave ones here), and as such we can afford to be more objective without actual skin in the game. If you’re incapable of criticizing a side, rather both sides, then some reflection is required.

Quote (Goomshill @ Oct 8 2023 09:46pm)

Jews are the ultimate recipients of the mantle of generational trauma, historical repression and dispossession. Darkies spent a couple centuries mistreated by Europe? Try on a couple millenia.
Clearly, if Palestinians aren't responsible for their actions because of societal conditions and grievances that existed long before they were born, Jews must have 10x the anti-privilege and thus be allowed to rape, torture and murder with impunity.
But it does beg the question- if Palestinians are able to commit massacres, carry away women as sex slaves and slaughter children- what can the Israelis do to top it? I feel with their greater cultural trauma, the only way Israelis can claim their birthright is if every Palestinian gets kidnapped and imprisoned for 15 years in total solitude in a sealed hotel room before being allowed to escape, unknowingly hypnotized to meet and fall in love with their own daughter and have sex with her before being forced to cut their own tongue out as an act of penance as their incest is revealed and forces them to suicide. And repeat that a few million times over

Quote (DizzyBusiness @ Oct 8 2023 09:45pm)

Why is it a binary? Israel is at fault because they are responsible for the current situation as the ruling power and their treatment of Palestinians, the Palestinians are also responsible for their actions in response to the situation Israel has placed them in. You could argue it is the fault of western society at large for supporting and allowing it as well though I suppose.

Seems weird to make it a moral issue when the underlying argument to it all is "might makes right" . Maybe the Palestinians should fight war like proper gentlemen and just kill 10x the amount with "precision" airstrikes. The US is all about the right to self determination, maybe they could supply them with weapons and Palestinians could fight an honorable war.

Quote (tman65ky @ Oct 8 2023 07:40pm)

This event has been called the Israeli 9/11. Quiet frankly it may end up being worse than 9/11 Israel should demand the immediate release and return of all the hostages both living and dead and the immediate unconditional surrender of all Hamas leadership, and all those that participated in the raid. If this doesn't happen then unleash hell.

Quote (Goomshill @ Oct 8 2023 07:46pm)

Jews are the ultimate recipients of the mantle of generational trauma, historical repression and dispossession. Darkies spent a couple centuries mistreated by Europe? Try on a couple millenia.

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Clearly, if Palestinians aren't responsible for their actions because of societal conditions and grievances that existed long before they were born, Jews must have 10x the anti-privilege and thus be allowed to rape, torture and murder with impunity.

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But it does beg the question- if Palestinians are able to commit massacres, carry away women as sex slaves and slaughter children- what can the Israelis do to top it? I feel with their greater cultural trauma, the only way Israelis can claim their birthright is if every Palestinian gets kidnapped and imprisoned for 15 years in total solitude in a sealed hotel room before being allowed to escape, unknowingly hypnotized to meet and fall in love with their own daughter and have sex with her before being forced to cut their own tongue out as an act of penance as their incest is revealed and forces them to suicide. And repeat that a few million times over

Quote (ofthevoid @ Oct 8 2023 07:48pm)

Quoting human rights abuses by Israel while Israeli civilian corpses remain scattered on highways is choosing a side though. It doesn't matter how civilly you frame it, you're prefacing a clear atrocity by one side by immediately jumping to some reason why what happened is somehow their own fault.

Israel has a huge Arab minority that lives and works amongst Jews daily. Those people have found a way to coexist and because they don't pose a threat they don't face human rights abuses, it's quiet simple.

Quote (Goomshill @ Oct 8 2023 09:51pm)

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is entirely a moral one for the Israeli side. Precisely because they could wipe out the Palestinians at any moment and have held that power for most of a century and instead chosen to live alongside people who wish to murder them. "Might makes right" explains who controls the land, but morality has been Israel's guiding principle for the treatment of those who don't control the land. Which of course is at odds with how every surrounding Arab country has evicted their Jews.
For Israelis, the moral calculus is becoming an issue of whether lancing the boil and taking decisive action to completely suppress or evict Palestinians actually becomes a long term good, both for them and Israel.

Quote (Goomshill @ Oct 8 2023 07:51pm)

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is entirely a moral one for the Israeli side. Precisely because they could wipe out the Palestinians at any moment and have held that power for most of a century and instead chosen to live alongside people who wish to murder them. "Might makes right" explains who controls the land, but morality has been Israel's guiding principle for the treatment of those who don't control the land. Which of course is at odds with how every surrounding Arab country has evicted their Jews.