Quote (thesnipa @ Dec 19 2019 04:51pm)
@ bold, because i agree with the rest, i would say you have a fairly subjective idea of both equality and opportunity.
for example you said the rich have little room to go up, whereas the poor have lots. thats a really subjective and narrow view of opportunity.
opportunity surely includes ability to make money, whats the best way to make money? invest a bunch of money you already have. opportunity is surely affected by education, the rich get the best of education and can afford to set their kids up debt free all the way through medical school if they please. safety affects oppurtunity, surely the rich are far safer. etc etc.
the poor have more potential, but if we wanted equal opportunity we'd have 100% equal houses, school, money in bank accounts, etc.
i think, but could be wrong, if we laid out an objective plan to give people true equality of opportunity in life, both of us would heavily dislike that plan. which is why i said equality is good sometimes, fairness is better sometimes, but its almost always a mix, based on the context of how important both equality and fairness are for the best outcome. and with regard to how this would effect not only the individual but the society at large.
getting back to the original idea here, its almost never fair for individuals in almost any aspect of life. so when i said it isnt fair before, i still stand by that. i think equating fairness and equality is simplifying a complex subject, and not representative of reality, which is highly subjective to begin with.
Once you have a certain amount of wealth there is little opportunity to improve your standard of living or lot in life at least materially. This is really the best way to measure upward mobility on a large scale imo.
When I say equal opportunity I'm assuming (and rightly I believe) that we are discussing this issue within our system not idealistic utopian societies.
Sure its subjective. I'll lay out what I mean. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. Life: Food, water, clothing and shelter. Liberty: Our constitutional rights. Pursuit of Happiness: The ability to improve our lot in life.
Right now we are lacking in The pursuit of Happiness since we are lacking in Life. This is why I'm personally for UBI for a variety of reasons. I can go into why more if you like.
Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness is the base line for equal opportunity. This equates to large scale fairness or equality.
You having the right to vote makes the process equal or fair. The outcome not being to your liking doesn't change that.
The law/policy being applied equally is the only large scale fairness we can apply to the original topic imo.