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Dec 19 2019 12:42pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 19 2019 12:37pm)
Just hypothetically: imagine california over the next years takes in a further 40m illegal immigrants from latin america, doubling CA's population count - would it be fair that this would gift democrats 55 additional votes in the electoral college and the corresponding number of house seats, and thus cement Democratic dominance in presidential and House elections?

Now, that's obviously an unrealistically high number, but the principle is the same even with much lower numbers. A criminal act diluting the political power of american citizens on the other side of the country is a big fucking deal and has cumulative effects of its own. This is not something with a very limited, focused scope.



I personally believe that decoupling illegal immigration and partisan politics as much as possible would really make all these discussions around immigration a lot less toxic and polarizing. In a similar vein, amnesty would be a lot more achievable politically if conservatives didnt have to fear that it would lead to Democratic dominance or to their tax dollars being spent on people who are only in the country because they broke the law.


but the principal isn't the same with lower numbers. having a slight edge in the electoral counts isnt the same as having a trump card. 55 votes isn't the same as an extra 3.

is it fair to citizens of states that we limit highway, educational, hospital, etc funding because they live in a state with a lot of illegals?

the fairness cuts both ways tbh. and the moral question of whether electoral votes should be based on real population or citizen population is anything but decided. there are pros and cons in both directions.

honestly if ICE can't apprehend illegals because they dont have census data telling them approx how many illegals are in a certain area they're doing a shitty job. with the citizenship question houses with illegals simply wont report them as such, so there's no road map to illegal houses in any case.
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Dec 19 2019 12:43pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Dec 19 2019 01:42pm)
but the principal isn't the same with lower numbers. having a slight edge in the electoral counts isnt the same as having a trump card. 55 votes isn't the same as an extra 3.

is it fair to citizens of states that we limit highway, educational, hospital, etc funding because they live in a state with a lot of illegals?

the fairness cuts both ways tbh. and the moral question of whether electoral votes should be based on real population or citizen population is anything but decided. there are pros and cons in both directions.

honestly if ICE can't apprehend illegals because they dont have census data telling them approx how many illegals are in a certain area they're doing a shitty job. with the citizenship question houses with illegals simply wont report them as such, so there's no road map to illegal houses in any case.


Maybe make Mexicans 3/5 of an American? Some sort of compromise?

This post was edited by Skinned on Dec 19 2019 12:43pm
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Dec 19 2019 12:43pm
Quote (fender @ Dec 19 2019 10:33am)
your (hopefully feigned) ignorance concerning that question is quite hilarious, considering it was only stopped after documents of deceased republican gerrymandering guru thomas hofeller became public, revealing what every halfway intelligent person was already able to identify as a move clearly intended to discourage voting by minorities: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/30/us/census-citizenship-question-hofeller.html

so your whole 'b-b-but how could this possibly be yet another attempt to disenfranchise voters, it's but a simple question' shtick is about half a year late, and 40 IQ short...



both obviously. repeatedly misspelling a word the exact same way clearly indicates you don't know the proper spelling. confusing 'there' and 'their' is a grammatical error. neither is a 'typo' or explained by 'typing on a phone' or whatever your next spineless excuse will be... and again, none of that is even remotely as embarrassing as your dodge of my main argument.


There is no repeatedly. Just a single instance that you've blown out of proportion to justify your statement, but in the end it does nothing for your actual argument. Which solidifies another garbbage post by Fender.
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Dec 19 2019 12:43pm
Quote (Skinned @ Dec 19 2019 12:43pm)
Maybe make Mexicans 3/5 of an American?


idk, i dont like to admit they're a person, but i can compromise on them getting 3/5 of a vote.
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Dec 19 2019 12:45pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Dec 19 2019 01:43pm)
idk, i dont like to admit they're a person, but i can compromise on them getting 3/5 of a vote.


Their only people if they got their papers. Papers equals people.

Maybe they should just wear a sleeve with a taco on it for identification. Or maybe the Virgin of Guadalupe.

This post was edited by Skinned on Dec 19 2019 12:46pm
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Dec 19 2019 12:46pm
Quote (Skinned @ Dec 19 2019 12:45pm)
Their only people if they got their papers. Papers equals people.


unless that paper is an unemployment form, then they're a leech.
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Dec 19 2019 01:39pm
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Dec 19 2019 01:53pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Dec 19 2019 12:42pm)
but the principal isn't the same with lower numbers. having a slight edge in the electoral counts isnt the same as having a trump card. 55 votes isn't the same as an extra 3.

is it fair to citizens of states that we limit highway, educational, hospital, etc funding because they live in a state with a lot of illegals?

the fairness cuts both ways tbh. and the moral question of whether electoral votes should be based on real population or citizen population is anything but decided. there are pros and cons in both directions.

honestly if ICE can't apprehend illegals because they dont have census data telling them approx how many illegals are in a certain area they're doing a shitty job. with the citizenship question houses with illegals simply wont report them as such, so there's no road map to illegal houses in any case.


Yes actually. This would put pressure on those states to actually deal with illegal immigration.
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Dec 19 2019 01:55pm
Quote (krackprophet @ Dec 19 2019 01:53pm)
Yes actually. This would put pressure on those states to actually deal with illegal immigration.


its fair to punish citizens because of decisions made by state politicians and mayors?

effective? sure. fair? ummm wtf?

imagine you're a republican in California who has voted against every one of these politicians. now you get shitty roads because someone you voted against did something you disagree with. that's "fair"? lol

This post was edited by thesnipa on Dec 19 2019 01:56pm
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Dec 19 2019 01:58pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Dec 19 2019 01:55pm)
its fair to punish citizens because of decisions made by state politicians and mayors?

effective? sure. fair? ummm wtf?


They voted those politicians into office. They can vote in people to reverse those decisions.

This is part of the reason I like UBI. If we had it I could just say "They can just move if they cant vote in the change they want".
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