Quote (thesnipa @ Oct 27 2023 10:23am)
you're making 2 mistakes in this position:
1. calling iraq and afghanistan half hearted, millions were killed. calling that half hearted is absurd, as is underplaying the cost of reinvestment in both nations. we spent an insane amount. but it failed because (see 2)
2. former rebuilding efforts and colonization worked because the colonizing nation stripped the resources of the nation to offset the cost of rebuilding. in the modern century that's not possible. im not talking about a few trucks of gold from iraq or even a few tankers of oil. britain stripped india for a century
this doesnt work in the middle east because of the structure of the nations and society. afghanistan is a tribal conglomerate of largely illiterate people and they produce poppi seeds and fuckall else. iraq makes oil and oil and oh year oil. but u cant take it, you'll just end up paying an opec tax in retribution to offset those gains.
nation building by westerners in the middle east hasnt ever works, wont ever work, and it just an expensive pet project for politicians subject to the woes of the industrial complex. you're far better off paying middle easterners 1/10th the price to try and fail to do it themselves.
I agree that "half hearted" is perhaps not the best way to explain my thoughts on the issue. My viewpoint is that the USA tried to nation build in ways that would work with a developed civilized nation, but not with a foreign nation that has no concept of Western culture or civilization. I say half-hearted because the only way to successfully nation build in these places is to occupy and settle them completely, i.e. complete and total conquest. But there is no appetite for this among Americans - who wants to emigrate and settle there?
on 2), I agree with that. But I ask why in the modern century is that not possible? If only for it being politically unpopular? It's possible but if the populace doesn't want it then it can't be done, but if they do want it, it can be done.
I also agree that western nationbuilding in these places will never work and is a collosal waste of money. So what options does that leave if those nations continue to choose violence and attack the American homeland along with staunch American allies (i.e. Israel)? It seems to me that the only options are either 1) conquest, which is unpopular, or 2) to raze and destroy those nations such that their capacity for violence is eliminated, which is also unpopular.
This post was edited by El1te on Oct 27 2023 11:47am