I agree that the state of the country of which you aim to pacify & reform is significant - as Germany and Japan were among the most educated, civilized nations in the world, and above all else, they were well-behaved and didn't violently attack their conquerors. Because they were well-behaved, they were able to recover and prosper again, and regain the right to self-governance.

Half-hearted attempts at pacification in largely uncivilized nations such as Iraq & Afghanistan are logically doomed to fail. However, because a half-hearted attempt failed does not mean a full effort attempt would succeed.

In order to pacify one of these borderline barbaric lands, the solution is well understood in history: occupy the land with an overwhelming military force, replace all levels of government, and eliminate all violent resistance. In addition, information must be tightly controlled. If within a certain period of time that the population is still not pacified, replacement of that population must occur through resettlement and colonization.

The land of India was pacified by the British Empire after the violent rebellion. And it worked because we took complete control over all aspects of government and eliminated all violent resistance. The Romans did this for centuries successfully to build one of the largest land Empires ever seen.

People know what the solution is but are afraid to speak it because bad faith actors will scream the G word. Let's not delude ourselves into believing that the people of Gaza are reasonable people who will negotiate a peaceful solution. Israel have tried for 70 years and the Palestinians are still rabid. There's only one solution for peace and that is to pacify the region and replace all levels of government.

This post was edited by El1te on Oct 27 2023 11:15am

the UN will never release a first hand account of this, nor any other neutral source. these bodies were placed into body bags if there was enough left of them by october 8th, no neutral people were there outside of a few reporters. and those reporters were who we in the public heard it from.

on october 8th and 9th a LOT of neckbeards had smiles ear to ear with posts like "you idiots actually believed islamic jihaadists beheaded 40 babies, lol suckers". well that's what islamic jihaadists have done for a long time, cut people's heads off, and it was confirmed 40 or so children died. not exactly crazy to at least humor the people who were sadly tasked with cleaning up the attack and infirming the burned and mutilated bodies of civilians.

then the hospital explosion happens and those same idiotic neckbeards instantly believe it, refuse to accept any info that points the other direction, and still to this day fully believe Hamas' numbers and facts.

whereas if info comes out literally 40 babies werent literally beheaded we're happy to say "thank god", even if only 39 babies died instead of 40 that's a "thank god" moment. of course there's misinformation and propaganda in the fog of war, who's unwilling to change positions when it clears tells the real story.

you're making 2 mistakes in this position:

1. calling iraq and afghanistan half hearted, millions were killed. calling that half hearted is absurd, as is underplaying the cost of reinvestment in both nations. we spent an insane amount. but it failed because (see 2)

2. former rebuilding efforts and colonization worked because the colonizing nation stripped the resources of the nation to offset the cost of rebuilding. in the modern century that's not possible. im not talking about a few trucks of gold from iraq or even a few tankers of oil. britain stripped india for a century

this doesnt work in the middle east because of the structure of the nations and society. afghanistan is a tribal conglomerate of largely illiterate people and they produce poppi seeds and fuckall else. iraq makes oil and oil and oh year oil. but u cant take it, you'll just end up paying an opec tax in retribution to offset those gains.

nation building by westerners in the middle east hasnt ever works, wont ever work, and it just an expensive pet project for politicians subject to the woes of the industrial complex. you're far better off paying middle easterners 1/10th the price to try and fail to do it themselves.

If the Palestinian people were well-behaved after being defeated in war, like Germany & Japan were, they would be thriving today with their own sovereign state (i.e., the 2 state solution would actually work).

But they were not. They have continued to refuse negotiations for 70 years now. They choose violence instead of dialogue.

Also, Germany & Japan lost the vast majority of their territory during the war and after losing the war. Remember Japan controlled the entire East Asian region & Germany controlled most of the landmass of Europe. But you don't see Japanese and German terrorists trying to reclaim that land (because they were all eradicated during the denazification process after WWII)

The lack of peace is squarely the fault of Palestinians who refuse to negotiate and who refuse to lay down their arms after an honourable defeat in war.

This post was edited by El1te on Oct 27 2023 11:24am

When you have no answer this you deflect?

Disgusting

I should have specified that I was not just referring to the tunnels of Hamas but also to their social infrastructure, their hierarchy, the leadership and the middle level officers. And to their TV stations and offices from which they disseminate their propaganda, etc.

anyone of importance is in Qatar already, and they can just do the broadcasts there. but i get what u mean now.

you're as big of a hypocrite as I expected, like all the other right wing fanatics. crazy that you used to be allowed to mod here

Hehe I miss the days when right wing fanatics were the ones siding with Nazis

This is a big reason why nearly all societies don't hand the keys of justice to the aggrieved.