Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 28 2021 04:08pm)

It's still fundamentally wrong to claim, like snipa did in his post to which I was replying, that Obama was "blockaded before he ever took office". I might have been wrong on the duration of time for which Obama had a filibuster-proof majority, but he was still in the strongest position to pass legislation in decades.

1.: he did have the opportunity to pass a piece of legislation which couldnt be filibustered. To the best of my knowledge, this was the only such time window in decades. Reagan, Bush, Clinton, W. Bush, Trump, Biden - they all didnt get this opportunity.
2.: even without a filibuster-proof majority, Obama was very close for most of those first two years in office. He only needed to win over 1 or 2 GOP senators to get past the filibuster.
3.: he had the strongest mandate of any president over the past 25 years and very good approval ratings at the start of his presidency.

Having a filibuster-proof trifecta is a historical anomaly, not the normal standard by which we should compare presidents. Compared to historical standards, Obama was in an unusually strong position to get things done, far stronger than what his predecessors and successors had at their disposal. What he got done with it was an insufficient stimulus bill which led to one of the most sluggish economic recoveries on record, a shitty healthcare bill which inflamed his opposition and left his supporters unsatisfied, and a regulatory bill for the financial sector which was overly complicated and effectively strengthened the market position of Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan etc. against their smaller competitors.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 28 2021 03:08pm)

It's still fundamentally wrong to claim, like snipa did in his post to which I was replying, that Obama was "blockaded before he ever took office". I might have been wrong on the duration of time for which Obama had a filibuster-proof majority, but he was still in the strongest position to pass legislation in decades.

1.: he did have the opportunity to pass a piece of legislation which couldnt be filibustered. To the best of my knowledge, this was the only such time window in decades. Reagan, Bush, Clinton, W. Bush, Trump, Biden - they all didnt get this opportunity.
2.: even without a filibuster-proof majority, Obama was very close for most of those first two years in office. He only needed to win over 1 or 2 GOP senators to get past the filibuster.
3.: he had the strongest mandate of any president over the past 25 years and very good approval ratings at the start of his presidency.

Having a filibuster-proof trifecta is a historical anomaly, not the normal standard by which we should compare presidents. Compared to historical standards, Obama was in an unusually strong position to get things done, far stronger than what his predecessors and successors had at their disposal. What he got done with it was an insufficient stimulus bill which led to one of the most sluggish economic recoveries on record, a shitty healthcare bill which inflamed his opposition and left his supporters unsatisfied, and a regulatory bill for the financial sector which was overly complicated and effectively strengthened the market position of Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan etc. against their smaller competitors.

Quote (thesnipa @ Jan 28 2021 05:02pm)

AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

u took the "blockaded before he took office" statement 100% literally? jesus man. i was being hyperbolic to underline my position that racism was against him. as in "people were against him before he got elected because he was black", not "he didnt have a mandate for a few months of potential legislation". and my point stands anyways, despite having a mandate Obamacare was insanely hard to get into law because of a combination of special interests being against it and propaganda from the right wing.

the truth is Obamacare was decent before the insurance companies got ahold of it. and we can criticize Obama for letting that happen, but reality is if he didnt it likely wouldnt have gotten passed at all. Obamacare was always a stepping stone, its the only way it works in the US. shitty progress leads to better progress. the fact that you hold this exclusively against Obama simply because his signature was on the bill is beyond silly. blaming a president for the state of incremental change in the US which predates him by a century or more. its hard coded into our system lol.

Quote (thesnipa @ 28 Jan 2021 23:02)

AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

u took the "blockaded before he took office" statement 100% literally? jesus man. i was being hyperbolic to underline my position that racism was against him. as in "people were against him before he got elected because he was black", not "he didnt have a mandate for a few months of potential legislation". and my point stands anyways, despite having a mandate Obamacare was insanely hard to get into law because of a combination of special interests being against it and propaganda from the right wing.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 28 2021 04:59pm)

And my counterargument also stands, namely that this racism-driven opposition didnt significantly affect his ability to govern during his first two years in office.

Quote (Thor123422 @ 29 Jan 2021 00:06)

Except it did. Republicans literally authored his healthcare plan and abandoned it when he wanted to pass it.

Weve had leaked memos for a decade now stating that Anything Obama wants will be automatically rejected regardless of content.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 28 2021 05:18pm)

And how exactly is this proof for racism?

Obama was popular, eloquent, charismatic and generally a huge political talent. He came into office during a wave election which bordered on a proper landslide. Is it so hard to believe that Republican strategists decided "we cant beat this guy if we give him any legislative achievements or partisan success" without his skin color factoring in?

Quote (Thor123422 @ 29 Jan 2021 00:22)

I get it, you weren't there and didnt see the insanely thinly veiled racism of the time. We had Republicans saying he was born in Kenya, supporting the tea party when they were holding "hang the monkey" signs, etc etc.

It was not hard to see at all.

I saw a diner full of people clap when an old guy said "I aint votin for no nigger" when his announcement was played on Fox on the TV.

Seriously dont be dense. America is racist as hell still and its only hard to see if you intentionally ignore it.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 28 2021 05:26pm)

You're talking about GOP voters or lowly, local-level officials, while your previous post refers to national Republicans. This notion that GOP senators and congressmen before the big Tea Party wave in 2010 were a bunch of racist as fuck bigots is laughable. Republicans in Congress didnt stonewall Obama because of rampant racism, they did it because of the political calculus that they could only defeat such a skilled and appealing guy via hyperpolarization.

Quote (Thor123422 @ 29 Jan 2021 00:29)

Lol okay.

If you are intent on not seeing it I can't force you to.

It takes a light breeze to get me to criticise democrats. You will defend Republicans on literally every issue until the whole forum is pointing out your bullshit.