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Aug 19 2021 03:33pm
Quote (thundercock @ Aug 19 2021 10:31pm)
We all agree that it's wrong. You think it's smart to tempt rapists whereas we don't think it's a good idea.


jesus. it's really difficult to talk to you since you literally make no sense. 10 year old tempting rapists and it's the 10 year olds fault. rapists which are basically the only authorities in the whole country. right.

one day it will happen to someone close to you. I hope you don't go and tell him her you should have not tempted the rapist.
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Aug 19 2021 03:35pm
anyways im done talking to you two pedophiles apologists. if I would have known you in real life... that would have been sweet :)
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Aug 19 2021 04:47pm
I'm not sure if I'm suffering from pro-Biden bias or not... but to me it seems like the criticism of him is overblown.

There's things worthy of criticism, like the failure to ramp up the process to take Afghan allies, and the apparent intelligence failure of how quickly the Taliban would take over.

But Americans still in Afghanistan had months to get out. People now are saying Biden needs to pour in troops to fight back the Taliban to expand the perimeter, even though there's Americans who would obviously be outside any perimeter we expanded. Why engage in armed conflict again with the Taliban for questionable gain?

People have argued we should've accepted the reality that the Taliban would take over, and removed our military hardware and other support for the Afghans. The idea that America would completely abandon an ally to an enemy we have been fighting for 20 years strikes me as completely absurd. The harm done to our image would be far worse than the beating it's taking today, and Biden would rightly take even more political damage.

So if defanging the Afghan army prior to or in the midst of their fight with the Taliban(along with other clear indicators the US knows the Afghan government/army is finished) isn't an option, and maintaining a US presence isn't an option, what should Biden have done? From what I've seen, Biden had several tough choices in front of him, and I think most of the ones he made were reasonable.

Tell me where I'm wrong PaRD.
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Aug 19 2021 05:45pm
When will the USA be a superpower again?
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Aug 19 2021 05:54pm
Quote (IceMage @ Aug 19 2021 05:47pm)
I'm not sure if I'm suffering from pro-Biden bias or not... but to me it seems like the criticism of him is overblown.

There's things worthy of criticism, like the failure to ramp up the process to take Afghan allies, and the apparent intelligence failure of how quickly the Taliban would take over.

But Americans still in Afghanistan had months to get out. People now are saying Biden needs to pour in troops to fight back the Taliban to expand the perimeter, even though there's Americans who would obviously be outside any perimeter we expanded. Why engage in armed conflict again with the Taliban for questionable gain?

People have argued we should've accepted the reality that the Taliban would take over, and removed our military hardware and other support for the Afghans. The idea that America would completely abandon an ally to an enemy we have been fighting for 20 years strikes me as completely absurd. The harm done to our image would be far worse than the beating it's taking today, and Biden would rightly take even more political damage.

So if defanging the Afghan army prior to or in the midst of their fight with the Taliban(along with other clear indicators the US knows the Afghan government/army is finished) isn't an option, and maintaining a US presence isn't an option, what should Biden have done? From what I've seen, Biden had several tough choices in front of him, and I think most of the ones he made were reasonable.

Tell me where I'm wrong PaRD.


Sounds like another example of image over substance. That's what happened. We abandoned Afghanistan to the Taliban, we just did it in a messy and disorganized way. Our image as a country took a shellacking. Biden is taking political damage. Is it somehow worth the chaos that he could have taken more criticism if it appeared to be an intentional and coordinated retreat instead of a leaderless rout?

I mean whats the difference here. Biden can be a leader and take flak for it but cut our countries losses and save lives and geopolitical position, or he can be an empty suit and take less flak for it

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Aug 19 2021 06:31pm
https://www.wsj.com/articles/confidential-state-department-cable-in-july-warned-of-afghanistans-collapse-11629406993?mod=hp_lead_pos7
nonpaywall link: https://archive.is/Q98Tb

Quote
WASHINGTON—An internal State Department memo last month warned top agency officials of the potential collapse of Kabul soon after the U.S.’s Aug. 31 troop withdrawal deadline in Afghanistan, according to a U.S. official and a person familiar with the document.
The classified cable represents the clearest evidence yet that the administration had been warned by its own officials on the ground that the Taliban’s advance was imminent and Afghanistan’s military may be unable to stop it.
The cable, sent via the State Department’s confidential dissent channel, warned of rapid territorial gains by the Taliban and the subsequent collapse of Afghan security forces, and offered recommendations on ways to mitigate the crisis and speed up an evacuation, the two people said.
The cable, dated July 13, also called for the State Department to use tougher language in describing the atrocities being committed by the Taliban, one of the people said.


Quote
President Biden in July had said that a collapse of the government and a Taliban takeover were “highly unlikely,” pointing to the large numbers of Afghan National Security Force members, their U.S. training and modern equipment, including an air force.
On Wednesday, in an interview with ABC News, Mr. Biden said that “the idea that somehow there’s a way to have gotten out without chaos ensuing, I don’t know how that happens.”
Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the Pentagon, has said that a speedy demise of the U.S.-supported government and army was unanticipated.
“There was nothing that I or anyone else saw that indicated a collapse of this army and this government in 11 days,” he said at the Pentagon on Wednesday.


Well that was bloody fast.
They have the documentation showing that US diplomats and embassy staff had directly warned the administration that the Afghan government was going to rapidly collapse and that evacuations had to start immediately, to head off the rapid Taliban advance. And then Biden and Milley both got up and claimed they had no way of knowing the Taliban was going to take over rapidly.
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Aug 19 2021 06:34pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Aug 19 2021 05:31pm)
https://www.wsj.com/articles/confidential-state-department-cable-in-july-warned-of-afghanistans-collapse-11629406993?mod=hp_lead_pos7
nonpaywall link: https://archive.is/Q98Tb





Well that was bloody fast.
They have the documentation showing that US diplomats and embassy staff had directly warned the administration that the Afghan government was going to rapidly collapse and that evacuations had to start immediately, to head off the rapid Taliban advance. And then Biden and Milley both got up and claimed they had no way of knowing the Taliban was going to take over rapidly.


After Aug 31. What is the date now?
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Aug 19 2021 06:44pm
Quote (thundercock @ Aug 19 2021 07:34pm)
After Aug 31. What is the date now?


Bidens plan called for a September 11th withdrawal and he and Milley set the bar at "no intelligence indicating a rapid collapse"
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Aug 19 2021 06:50pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Aug 19 2021 05:44pm)
Bidens plan called for a September 11th withdrawal and he and Milley set the bar at "no intelligence indicating a rapid collapse"


Which is an obvious lie or the State Department filtered it out due to lack of consensus. Regardless, we are here now bc no one thought the Afghans would outperform the French. Heads definitely need to roll at multiple levels.
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Aug 19 2021 07:16pm
Quote (FunkDoc @ Aug 20 2021 01:45am)
When will the USA be a superpower again?


never
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