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#341
Mar 21 2016 05:45pm
It needs to be reiterated: veganism isn't about stopping all animal suffering as such is impossible. It is about implementing possible and practical ways to reduce it. If we have farming technique a that results in animal suffering x and environmental damage y and farming technique b that results in animal suffering 10x and environmental damage 5y, it's obvious what we should do.
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#342
Mar 21 2016 05:46pm
Quote (Voyaging @ Mar 21 2016 06:42pm)
Yep, torturing 50 is exactly 5 times worse.


He has a good point though. Many vegans are only willing to sacrifice their lifestyle to a certain extent. I'm sure plenty of vegans could make it a priority to have a garden in order to feed themselves. Everyone has their moral failings of course.

Quote (Nathan @ Mar 21 2016 06:41pm)
As contentious as it may be, I've actually heard that housecats can in fact eat a vegan diet with synthetic taurine. I haven't done deep research myself, and also don't know if it applies to big cats, although I think it does. I'm not actually defending or attacking this, just putting it out there as I haven't fully educated myself on that topic.


I'm not an expert, but from what I've heard big cats cannot survive off a vegan diet. That's why I'm curious to know what moral failing(from your perspective) you would pick.
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#343
Mar 21 2016 05:46pm
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ Mar 21 2016 04:44pm)
...the history of piss poor analogies on PaRD has reached a new low :rofl:

But remember this - the next time you sit down to your vegan lasagna feeling morally superior to us meat eaters ...remember...science has proven that rabbits actually scream when being sliced to ribbons but you can't hear them over the noise of the machine .


The analogy is actually perfect. We need to eat to survive, and in order to viably produce enough food to sustain our population we need to harm some animals. This, the natural need to eat, is the gun pointed at our heads telling us to torture 10.

That you choose to torture another 40 by killing more animals than you need to is an immoral choice.
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#344
Mar 21 2016 05:48pm
Quote (Nathan @ Mar 21 2016 06:45pm)
It needs to be reiterated: veganism isn't about stopping all animal suffering as such is impossible. It is about implementing possible and practical ways to reduce it. If we have farming technique a that results in animal suffering x and environmental damage y and farming technique b that results in animal suffering 10x and environmental damage 5y, it's obvious what we should do.


I'm guessing some abolitionists in America were focused on reducing slavery as much as they thought possible. The true believers were focused on abolishing it completely.
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#345
Mar 21 2016 05:50pm
one thing's for sure, we shouldn't encourage it.
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#346
Mar 21 2016 05:50pm
Quote (Nathan @ Mar 21 2016 07:46pm)
The analogy is actually perfect. We need to eat to survive, and in order to viably produce enough food to sustain our population we need to harm some animals. This, the natural need to eat, is the gun pointed at our heads telling us to torture 10.

That you choose to torture another 40 by killing more animals than you need to is an immoral choice.


...hogwash !

If you actually had the courage of your convictions you would acquire or grow your own produce in a way that does not slice small mammals to ribbons of blood , flesh and fur . But you don't so you won't .
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#347
Mar 21 2016 05:53pm
Quote (IceMage @ Mar 21 2016 07:48pm)
I'm guessing some abolitionists in America were focused on reducing slavery as much as they thought possible. The true believers were focused on abolishing it completely.


I'm sure all compassionate vegans would advocate abolishing animal suffering entirely if there was a way to (indeed there is, as I've posted before www.Abolitionist.com).
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#348
Mar 21 2016 05:53pm
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ Mar 21 2016 04:50pm)
...hogwash !

If you actually had the courage of your convictions you would acquire or grow your own produce in a way that does not slice small mammals to ribbons of blood , flesh and fur . But you don't so you won't .


I don't think such can be implemented in such a way that the whole population can be fed, although I'm curious about that.
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#349
Mar 21 2016 05:56pm
Quote (Nathan @ Mar 21 2016 07:53pm)
I don't think such can be implemented in such a way that the whole population can be fed, although I'm curious about that.


...I'm talking about you and your obvious hypocrisy...trying to justify why you won't do it because it can't be done for the entire population is the very height of moral cowardice .
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#350
Mar 21 2016 05:56pm
Quote (Voyaging @ Mar 21 2016 04:53pm)
I'm sure all compassionate vegans would advocate abolishing animal suffering entirely if there was a way to (indeed there is, as I've posted before www.Abolitionist.com).


Can you give the rundown of this? I'll read it later but I have to go about now anyway.
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