Yeah I was commenting on these videos earlier, its a very direct and unambiguous example of war crimes.
After the Russian sources posted it as an example of UA war crimes, the UA defense has been to claim it is a Russian drone
So there's the fog of war. The UA counterclaim is simply to deny it and blame it on Russia. They provided zero evidence to contradict it in any account I could find

Begs the question for us as observers with no real way to confirm which side is responsible. The attacking drones are not identifiable, the interface is from a spotter drone watching it unfold.
The only things we can draw upon are;

who posted it first
which situation is more likely

Russians posted it as an example of Ukrainian war crimes, and only after it trended on social media did UA propaganda whir up and make the counterclaim
The Russians are advancing and taking over areas of Donetsk where the locals are largely ethnic Russians, where those who wanted to flee west have had opportunity to do so already, and the only close lines to surrender are the Russian ones.
Every report seems to identify it as taking place at the front in Kruhliakivka at the Kupyansk front. That's an area that was just overtaken by the Russians, and on the east side of the river, beyond the lines now.
So the Russians take an area, and a video emerges of people trying to surrender, but being blown up. It has to be on the Russian side.
Which is more likely, Russians killed civilians trying to surrender to the- but used a suicide drone instead of shooting them- or Ukrainians who are right over the river killed civilians surrendering to the Russians?

Look what happens if you google up that story in the past couple days. An echo chamber of ukrainian propaganda websites being reposted by major outlets like the NYP, in direct conflict with media outlets adjacent to Russia like a whole bunch of Indian news websites that reported the story earlier, as Ukrainian drones.
TimesofIndia on Nov 4th, "UAVs Bomb Own Civilians In Kharkiv". Nova news (italian) on Nov 4th: "Ukrainian drones kill civilians trying to cross Russian lines"
Then about 12 hours later on the same day we have kyivindependent, state propaganda site saying "Video shows Russian drone killing white flag-waving civilians and dog, Ukraine opens war crimes investigation"
The next day "Russia slaughters elderly Ukrainians and dog toting white flag in horrific drone attack" by the New York Post, and yet numerous people in its own comment section are calling it out as a Ukrainian drone attack

This is what 2025 looks like. The cloud of disinformation is purposefully dense

Horrible
Send that fan fic to putin and maybe he'll grow a heart and reign in his orc hordes and abandon his invasion of a sovereign nation

I was commenting on nazi symbolism in ukraine a decade before you came to this forum

I've never said nazis dont have a presence in ukraine, I just dont like orcs

This post was edited by duffman316 on Nov 7 2025 08:15am

Will stopping the invasion stop Nazis with SS insignias & swastika tattoos from terrorizing local population?



These orcs, who are they exactly? Can you tell the difference if you meet them on the street?

idk how much terror ryzing of civilian populations was going on before the orc invasion but it was certainly not on the scale we see now

there seems to be a bunch of russian propaganda about the persecution of ethnic russians in ukrainian terroritories pre invasion but i'ma go with the ai results on that one which labels it unsubstantiated

Afaik there was nothing at all that could be portrayed as the bloodshed and persecution like the Banderite death squads we've seen since.
Before 2014 Ukraine was more or less a functional country. The poorest and under Russia's yoke, but peaceful and not terrorized by ethnic/political strife. You could cast it as a backwards kleptocracy, still too much post-soviet poverty while oligarchs drained the resources. From 2000 to 2012 the homicide rate in Ukraine dropped from 10.0 to 4.3 as the country got out of its post-USSR shakeup, a safer country than the USA but well behind the rest of the EU, only some other post-soviet sadsacks like Latvia were around the same.

It wasn't until the cossacks got to rise up as nazis again during the maidan that they took center stage. Ukraine went from being a pretty sleepy country to a blazing sectarian conflict with the banderites overthrowing a government and carrying out mass murders. All that persecution of ethnic Russians that wasn't taking place pre-invasion, was post-invasion. The hit lists of journalists and dissidents, the opposition party members murdered or taken captive, the swastikas plastered everywhere in public. Back in 2012 it would have been big news if the country had a school shooting, in 2025 we get to see drone blowing up civilians waving white flags and just brush that off as 'tuesday'.

From an American chauvinist and nationalist perspective the suffering of Ukrainians doesn't bother me as much as the strategic backwardness of severing relations with Russia when China is our competitor. But I'd have to ask the pro-western ukrainian revolutionaries if they think its all worth it, are they better off with Zelensky and Syrskyi under an SS flag, than they were with Yanukovych trying to bridge the interests of east and west?

Every thermal power plant operated by Ukraine is offline, and they've hit one of the previously untargeted 750kV substations in kyiv
The substations have been open targets that would take their whole grid offline with no transmission method, but also knock out the nuclear power plant off-site power sources

>"The most massive strike on our thermal power plants since the start of the war. An unprecedented number of missiles and countless drones targeted the same power plants we had restored after the devastating attack in 2024, with several hitting per minute,"
>"The stations are on fire! Our thermal power plants are not military targets. We do not produce weapons! Civilian employees work here. We have stopped… Currently, generation is zero. Zero! We have lost everything we restored around the clock. Completely!" the company added.

So this is the Moscow blackout the clown promised us.

Is that on MSNBC, Fox, the BBC or anything like that? and if not, why. discuss.

Ukrainian military telegrams openly advocate the use of 'Einzatsgruppen' to deal with 'waiters for the Russians'