hes literally sirthoms multi

Ukraine was never a serious candidate for NATO expansion. The only reason people are talking about it now is to show that Russia trying to assert it's dominion over Europe is a laughable effort.

You say the West not backing down when faced with an unprovoked Russian invasion of Ukraine made things worse... and we're supposed to pretend you aren't completely in the Russian camp ideologically on this?

If Ukraine were on the verge of joining NATO, this argument might have a bit of merit, based on your priors. But they aren't even in the fucking EU. What the hell are you talking about? They were a nation who repelled their Russian-influenced leader through democratic rebellion, and have persisted democratically to be closer to Europe and the free world than to a backwards gas-station state with nuclear weapons.

You have to believe a bunch of Russian-created conspiracy theories, like that the West somehow overthrew the Yanukovych government through secret operations, which is always a claim of authoritarian governments who face popular resistance. He was overthrown by his own people, in a popular uprising, which is not a coup. We don't call the American Revolution the American Coup, but I suppose loyalists in that time may have.

Putin, whatever his motivations, does not care about any of the values that the free world cares about. He's perfectly willing to let his soldiers rape, murder, and pillage Ukraine to achieve whatever his inner motivations are. The West backing down to such an evil aggressor is morally egregious, and strategically deadly. History has shown what weakness in the face of such evil can bring.

And the fact that ignorant, young dudes in America can act like Putin has a right to wage such a tragic war because the West didn't abide by the Soviet stranglehold on Europe that existed in 1990 sounds to me like some tankie bullshit. But we're in 2023 so I guess it's become Trumpist/populist bullshit.

This post was edited by IceMage on May 2 2023 06:17pm

Stopped reading there

From the official NATO source --> https://www.nato.int/docu/update/2008/04-april/e0403h.html



And recently:

I'll take the last one first. Russia invaded Ukraine in February of 2022... and you are posting NATO recently saying that Ukraine will one day become a member of the alliance as evidence that Russia was right to invade? Do I need to explain how ridiculous that is?

I guess I'm wondering if you are playing dumb, or you just accept the propaganda from Russia and think they are as dumb as you are. The idea that Ukraine, not even a member of the EU, would quickly join the alliance absent serious circumstances, is ridiculous. And I suppose it's useful for the Russians, because they know it wouldn't happen, but ignorant Westerners and others who support them will make the silly arguments.

Dude... I responded to you saying this



I replied with the official NATO source (2008 Bucharest summit) where NATO welcomes Ukraine's and Georgia's future membership and the pic shows NATO boss Stoltenberg doubling down on that

You're delusional

My argument was that Ukraine was not a serious candidate for NATO expansion.

So the argument that Russia had to invade because Ukraine was on the doorstep to becoming part of NATO... is an article from 2008 where the head of NATO is saying he welcomes the membership of Ukraine and Georgia, who are both not members of NATO, and not even members of the EU.

They are both not members of either international organization/alliance.

But yet, the argument from you is that Russia's genocidal war against Ukraine makes sense because 15 years ago it was talked about at NATO?

Are you fucking high?

You are delusional

Perhaps you should check your post history and see that I told you several times that the only reason NATO could ever want Ukraine is because of it's geographic location.

Ukraine is a corrupt shit hole, GDP of a couple hundred billion, old Soviet military and infrastructure, high crime rate, wow what a nice NATO member.

But the fact is that NATO still wants Ukraine to become a NATO member. And you've heard of NATO expansion or haven't you? Are you going to argue that this here didn't happen (wouldn't surprise me because you're clueless)

Now you're focusing on some hypothetical argument that never actually existed in practice, which is what I just said! NATO talked about something, so therefore, Russia is justified in pursuing a genocidal war based on that bullshit. Even though the war started and is being waged with mostly different justifications.

And you're enabling this genocidal war because your ideology Trumps reality and/or humanity. Shame on you.

This post was edited by IceMage on May 2 2023 06:57pm

You're completely dishonest but what to expect for a clown who simps for the establishment.

NATO has expanded round after round and you KNOW that Ukraine and Georgia are next on the list but it's too uncomfortable for you to admit it huh