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Nov 26 2015 09:29am
Quote (Goomshill @ 26 Nov 2015 10:16)
No no no widow, american injuns were mystical fairy elves who lived in peace and harmony with their lands, untainted by war pestilence or famine, they lived ideal lives in utopia without need for higher concepts like economics because they already had all their needs given to them by the blessed land. All until their tribes were ruined and despoiled and first sin introduced by the white man who brought disease, war, hate and whiskey. You need to educate yourself by watching historical epics like fern gully



You've got yourself a different huckleberry there partner. I have no unreal expectations about what life was like for the native Americans. They warred constantly against tribes from different nations. Some seasons were good hunting seasons and some weren't.

@ bold Where would you think the native Americans received all of their needful things if not from mother earth? maybe a little trading some barter amongst friendly tribes. But there weren't Walmarts quite yet Hurr Durr.


You need to pay attention...You'd better google Fern Gully before you make an even bigger fool out of yourself. And can I have some of what you're drinking?
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Nov 26 2015 09:32am
Quote (Valhalls_Sun @ Nov 26 2015 10:19am)
Are you nit-picking the difference between occupying and holding by force with owning? if they had their village on a section of land and they hunter the surrounding land...it was their land.

What's that saying about possession and ownership again?

Try harder Kemo Sabe


...it's called understanding the actual meaning of words which apparently wasn't a part of your general education .

My English class > your wood shop class
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Nov 26 2015 09:32am
Quote (Valhalls_Sun @ Nov 26 2015 09:29am)
You've got yourself a different huckleberry there partner. I have no unreal expectations about what life was like for the native Americans. They warred constantly against tribes from different nations. Some seasons were good hunting seasons and some weren't.

@ bold Where would you think the native Americans received all of their needful things if not from mother earth? maybe a little trading some barter amongst friendly tribes. But there weren't Walmarts quite yet Hurr Durr.


simple, they didn't receive needful things, and died because of it, whether it was due to lack of medicine or food or shelter


Quote
You need to pay attention...You'd better google Fern Gully before you make an even bigger fool out of yourself.


*whoosh*
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Nov 26 2015 10:01am
Quote (Goomshill @ 26 Nov 2015 10:32)
simple, they didn't receive needful things, and died because of it, whether it was due to lack of medicine or food or shelter




*whoosh*



Native Americans thrived here 15,000 years ago they surely gathered enough needful supplies to thrive for centuries before the encroachment of whitey


whoosh/ whoosh

Fern Gully took place in the Amazon South American rainforest SillyPants
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Nov 26 2015 04:45pm
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ Nov 25 2015 07:39pm)
...Indians ( feather ) did not believe in land ownership ; the Pilgrims did , so by default it was theirs for the taking .

which Indians? surely many of them believed in the cultivation of land, as wittnessed by the variety of crops that their work introduced into Europe (tobacco, maize, squash, and some varieties of beans). what are you talking about?
ownership does not mean what you think here, especially if it's leased (which seems to generally been the case). and doubly so when it's robbed and the treaties are broken.

how would you excuse the actions made in the name of "terra nullius", or the outright violent conquest and the breaking of treaties?

Quote (Goomshill @ Nov 26 2015 06:16pm)
No no no widow, american injuns were mystical fairy elves who lived in peace and harmony with their lands, untainted by war pestilence or famine, they lived ideal lives in utopia without need for higher concepts like economics because they already had all their needs given to them by the blessed land. All until their tribes were ruined and despoiled and first sin introduced by the white man who brought disease, war, hate and whiskey. You need to educate yourself by watching historical epics like fern gully

but this is what most historians utterly reject. instead it is believed that many American Indians actually had "complex societies" and that they were extensively agricultural. where are you getting this from, because i'm getting the feeling that it's mostly from your imagination.

Quote (Goomshill @ Nov 26 2015 06:32pm)
simple, they didn't receive needful things, and died because of it, whether it was due to lack of medicine or food or shelter

but medicine is a rather recent product. it seems to me as if you're conflating it with the colonialist times, which is insane. it wasn't because of an innate lack of food or shelter, but often because these two things were taken away from them. when it comes to many parts of South America or the Caribbean a more accurate depiction would be "they died because they were starved to death by slave labour".
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Nov 26 2015 04:47pm
Quote (Gastly @ Nov 26 2015 04:45pm)
which Indians? surely many of them believed in the cultivation of land, as wittnessed by the variety of crops that their work introduced into Europe (tobacco, maize, squash, and some varieties of beans). what are you talking about?
ownership does not mean what you think here, especially if it's leased (which seems to generally been the case). and doubly so when it's robbed and the treaties are broken.

how would you excuse the actions made in the name of "terra nullius", or the outright violent conquest and the breaking of treaties?


but this is what most historians utterly reject. instead it is believed that many American Indians actually had "complex societies" and that they were extensively agricultural. where are you getting this from, because i'm getting the feeling that it's mostly from your imagination.


but medicine is a rather recent product. it seems to me as if you're conflating it with the colonialist times, which is insane. it wasn't because of an innate lack of food or shelter, but often because these two things were taken away from them. when it comes to many parts of South America or the Caribbean a more accurate depiction would be "they died because they were starved to death by slave labour".


Goom was being sarcastic
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Nov 26 2015 04:53pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Nov 27 2015 01:47am)
Goom was being sarcastic

hopefully, because these sort of beliefs are often espoused by idiots to support their idiotic agendas and i like to call them out.
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Nov 26 2015 07:12pm
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Nov 26 2015 07:20pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Nov 26 2015 09:16am)
No no no widow, american injuns were mystical fairy elves who lived in peace and harmony with their lands, untainted by war pestilence or famine, they lived ideal lives in utopia without need for higher concepts like economics because they already had all their needs given to them by the blessed land. All until their tribes were ruined and despoiled and first sin introduced by the white man who brought disease, war, hate and whiskey. You need to educate yourself by watching historical epics like fern gully


I love everything about this post My friend always tells a story about how watching Fern Gully turned him Republican for a year.

Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ Nov 26 2015 08:43am)
...the concept of owning the land is not even in their languages . They occupied and held land by force and attacked other tribes to occupy their land . The main reason the Abenaki Sagamore Indians approached the Pilgrims was to form a military alliance against their enemies which led to what we call the first Thanksgiving . Put that in your PC pipe and smoke it !


They had no concept of land ownship.... but would attack other tribes to occupy their land? Seems a bit contradictory... and a simple google search revealed that native americans did have a concept of owning land and for example had laws specifically on how farm land was owned by families, communities, etc.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Nov 26 2015 07:20pm
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Nov 27 2015 09:44am
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