It's almost like when you have a gun problem you legislate against it, and sometimes those laws aren't effective.

I think that was the point of the pic. Legislating against guns, is pretty useless. Especially when the Constitution allows them.


/e I guess the other point was... that all those bar charts that people post about the US gun deaths...is pretty much lying with statistics.



/ee There's even a hidden point as well. What do those 5 cities, have in common?

This post was edited by Ghot on Sep 17 2019 12:53pm

This is some really important data, lol.



Let's not notate that almost all of those crimes are due to gangs, right? Maybe gangs are the problem and not the gun laws...

This post was edited by ChrisKz on Sep 17 2019 12:54pm

I been trying to explain to folk for about 2 years now, that you can't realistically compare the US to a country like France for example. To get any realistic data you would have to compare the US to a similar country.
Unfortunately, there really isn't a similar country.



/e Yep... where gangs run rampant, there will be deaths. Even if they don't have any guns. LOL

This post was edited by Ghot on Sep 17 2019 12:56pm

You would need more information to see if it was lying with statistics. If you take out the 5 worst cities from all countries and we are still significantly lower, then it might be a good case, but just saying "if we take out the 5 most dangerous places we get a lot safer" is like saying Bush kept us safe if you ignore 9/11.

It is significantly lower according to that picture. Going from 3rd highest to being in the 5 lowest in murder rates simply by taking out cities that are infested with gangs is a pretty big indicator. That is if the data in the picture is correct.

This post was edited by ChrisKz on Sep 17 2019 12:59pm

You can't compare the US to JUST a country like France.


/e If there was another country that was composed of say 50 states, all under the same govt., and having 350 million folk.... then you could make a realistic comparison.

This post was edited by Ghot on Sep 17 2019 12:59pm

If you selectively take out the most violent parts of a country then any country is going to drop way down the list. You need more information to see if its a dishonest comparison. Crimes are focused in cities no matter where you look, so unless you are doing a comparison by treating the other countries the same, i.e. taking out the most violent parts, then it's not an honest comparison.



To correct for population size you use total murders as a proportion of overall population as a starting point, not just raw numbers. I agree that if you just took raw numbers and compared them to a country like France it wouldn't be honest, but if we compare rates it gets more accurate. You can include more information as well, like factoring in population density, but what you do depends on what specific effect you are wanting to look at.

That is true, but it is also true that gangs are more if not a cultural staple issue here in the U.S. I would say that China and U.S have the worst gangs, right?

I'll correct that, worst gangs in a 1st world country.

This post was edited by ChrisKz on Sep 17 2019 01:25pm

I'm definitely not familiar with European gangs, but I also know that Japan has fairly prolific gangs as well. Although because of Japan's strict gun policy there gangs, while violence, rely on physical weapons and not guns