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Nov 20 2015 11:26am
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Nov 20 2015 11:29am
Quote (cambovenzi @ Nov 20 2015 07:43am)
School choice is widely opposed on the left, Bernie now included.


What are you talking about? The Left and Middle has been trying to offer choice by having quality public schools open to everybody with the choice of magnet schools as well. I could have sent my daughter to four different schools and more if you factor in the lower-than-par charter schools "operating" in my adjacent neighborhoods. I know the situation is elsewhere across my state, which has a pretty progressive Republican governor. I know not all schools are doing great, for example my immediate school isn't good, which is why I elected to use a magnet school. However, the reason my neighborhood school isn't doing well is because due to NCLB it has had its funding cut for ten consecutive years and the staff is changed every 4 years so it is being systemically held back by poor legislation signed into law by Mr. Bush. Given that it is renter heavy district and the systemic discrimination in education against renters when school districts are funded by property taxes, does my neighborhood school really stand a chance? That money is being redistributed to more "diverse" schools (actually has a fair amount of white students) from my neighborhood school, which is 95+% black, 99%+ free-lunches, which in case you were wondering the relevance of that, means being in poverty, which is linked to mental illness, poorer physical health, less access to education (case in point), unequal treatment in the criminal justice system, and you even pay more for things like water (through utilities and minimum use fees) and milk (raised prices due to being in a food desert), again, all systemic barriers.

I've never even heard you discuss any of these things facing many Americans in any detail, any nuance, or with any compassion.
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Nov 20 2015 11:42am
Quote (cambovenzi @ 20 Nov 2015 18:26)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnZH1gb3ef8


I wont see that video, but i can be agree on 1 thing; securizing individual freedom, especially when those are under the thread of lobbies/corps/corruption...
After like i said in some post sometime ago: libertarianism is only a direction, but certainly not a solution.
This is why im moderated social-democrat; if you fall down you are helped, if you want run high you can still do it.
High schools are accessible to everybody, state elite contain enough people from lower class, and state is strong enough to stop lobbies/corps/corruption...
Isnt perfect but better than leave in a zero chance hole.

=)
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Nov 20 2015 11:44am
Quote (cambovenzi @ Nov 20 2015 01:26pm)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnZH1gb3ef8


I might actually watch this.
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Nov 20 2015 12:13pm
Quote (Voyaging @ Nov 20 2015 12:44pm)
I might actually watch this.


They need to support the abolishment of private property. You can't claim to support freedom and private property simultaneously.

A freedom doesn't need a police apparatus to enforce.
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Nov 20 2015 12:14pm
Quote (Skinned @ Nov 20 2015 01:13pm)
They need to support the abolishment of private property. You can't claim to support freedom and private property simultaneously.

A freedom doesn't need a police apparatus to enforce.


You'll need policing apparatus to bring about, enforce and maintain the collectivization you want to create..
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Nov 20 2015 12:16pm
Quote (Cover3 @ Nov 20 2015 01:14pm)
You'll need policing apparatus to bring about, enforce and maintain the collectivization you want to create..


Abolishing private property doesn't mean collectivization. It just means you use the land you're on, and if it isn't in use it is free to use. You can't stop people from using land because of a piece of paper representing power in the symbolic order backed by violence...that is anti-libertarian and anti-freedom.

Don't get sidetracked by my sig.

This post was edited by Skinned on Nov 20 2015 12:17pm
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Nov 20 2015 12:17pm
Quote (Skinned @ 20 Nov 2015 19:13)
They need to support the abolishment of private property. You can't claim to support freedom and private property simultaneously.
A freedom doesn't need a police apparatus to enforce.


star trek xD




This post was edited by Saucisson6000 on Nov 20 2015 12:34pm
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Nov 20 2015 12:43pm
Quote (Skinned @ Nov 20 2015 12:29pm)
What are you talking about? The Left and Middle has been trying to offer choice by having quality public schools open to everybody with the choice of magnet schools as well. I could have sent my daughter to four different schools and more if you factor in the lower-than-par charter schools "operating" in my adjacent neighborhoods. I know the situation is elsewhere across my state, which has a pretty progressive Republican governor. I know not all schools are doing great, for example my immediate school isn't good, which is why I elected to use a magnet school. However, the reason my neighborhood school isn't doing well is because due to NCLB it has had its funding cut for ten consecutive years and the staff is changed every 4 years so it is being systemically held back by poor legislation signed into law by Mr. Bush. Given that it is renter heavy district and the systemic discrimination in education against renters when school districts are funded by property taxes, does my neighborhood school really stand a chance? That money is being redistributed to more "diverse" schools (actually has a fair amount of white students) from my neighborhood school, which is 95+% black, 99%+ free-lunches, which in case you were wondering the relevance of that, means being in poverty, which is linked to mental illness, poorer physical health, less access to education (case in point), unequal treatment in the criminal justice system, and you even pay more for things like water (through utilities and minimum use fees) and milk (raised prices due to being in a food desert), again, all systemic barriers.


It can't possibly be news to you that many Democrats oppose school choice.
Its also not news that its mostly the Republicans and Libertarians advocating for school choice and localized decision making rather than top-down federal intervention.
Various schemes and reforms from vouchers to tax credits have been proposed.

A hint of opening up public schools to more competition from private schools and charter schools makes many Dems recoil in horror.
The mayor of NYC has been a staunch opponent and was making national headlines.
I can come up with more examples if you would like.

NCLB was passed by overwhelming majorities from both parties in both the house and senate.
Of course nowadays its hated by most of everyone.
Bernie Sanders voted FOR it originally before voting against the final bill. (the guy in my ava voted against both times, of course)
I agree that its seriously flawed.
To Bernie's credit he previously called for ending mandatory public schooling and he personally said it crushed their spirits... Unfortunately he doubles down on public schooling today.

We have extreme failure of the public school system, particularly in inner cities, and of many other government aspects that you identify. But all too common the reaction to government failure is to throw more money at the problem and continue with the same failed government programs.
That doesn't fix systematic failure, it entrenches it.

I think if you try really hard you can remember i'm the guy who isn't happy with all of that government failure/injustice in education, the economy, and the CJ system. Or even the zoning laws that restrict how close shops can be to residential areas for that matter..
The walmart supercenters that were popping up everywhere that the left abhors have served millions nicely as an available very-low-cost access site to a variety of foods/drinks and other goods, serving poor people across the country.


Quote
I've never even heard you discuss any of these things facing many Americans in any detail, any nuance, or with any compassion.

Then you've not been paying attention and/or are trolling.
Pick up to 2.

This post was edited by cambovenzi on Nov 20 2015 01:02pm
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Nov 20 2015 07:05pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Nov 20 2015 10:30am)
It coerces people into buying specific expensive types of insurance that comply with the law and made the options for most people worse and more expensive. (a number of taxes and additional regulations in the ridiculously named affordable care act contributed to this)
He calls it cadillac insurance, completely missing the reasons why most people don't buy cadillacs.
They choose to buy more goods and services more suitable for them. (Affordable, catered to their particular needs and interests, etc)

Pretty clearly if someone doesn't want insurance or wants a different type of insurance and the law inhibits and restricts that, their choice is being limited.


Whether you think forcing people to buy health care coverage is good or not is your own subjective valuation and doesn't pertain to whether its restricting choice or not.

I would stress that the means are part of the ends.
Nor is a bill that restricts choice, forces people to buy from select insurance corporations and makes it more expensive and a million other things the only way to increase access to healthcare.



I was just talking about saucykid chiming in with some insults as entire posts.



The more than occasional posting of memes in various threads mocking republicans as inbred rednecks. etc.

I also stumbled across some classics of the foreign investment in third world countries debates:

(hes a fan)

(He wanted to literally ban foreign investment.)


have you considered the possibility if everyone who reads what's you write thinks you're a horrible and horrifyingly selfish human being that there is a chance the problem might not be everyone else?
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