- It's not illegal to lie to the public ? Then it's not illegal to ask again, and maybe it could be a slightly different question, even several different questions.
- You want them facing their leave choice ? EU should even refuse the 3 months delay to trigger a chaotic situation, forcing the hand for new elections in UK, but this is very risky.

So second referendum is for me the only "solution", during the 3 months delay.

brexiteers lying and making false promises is a fact, thats totally clear

however i do wonder why the pro EU side constantly lying about the "benefits" of a bureaucratic and undemocratic monstrosity is never making the discussion

are there good and bad lies?

Creating some kind of "bureaucratic and undemocratic" entity monster
Fapping on the globalism speech (hello anti-intellectualism)
Ending up in a brilliant load of "butt muslims butt africans"


Benefits list of being EU is pretty decent and it's not false news.
Some people forgot the best one: Peace.

we had peace for decades already before the EU in its current form even existed

you shouldnt have skipped your history classes

and brexit is the best example for the EU having become a monstrosity
leaving has become so complicated that no person on the planet can possibly understand the whole thing, thats how much brussels has already made its way into pretty much everything

This post was edited by ampoo on Mar 13 2019 06:32am

Sorry but in my "history classes" it was pretty clear that European union started to build in the 50's. It's a direction.
Today west countries are going through a specific era of regressive populism and nationalism; so "we had peace for decades already" is not only wrong considering facts of History, but is also wrong on the simple logical analysis of how History is "working".

Which is typical anti-intellectualism, again.

source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_and_the_European_Union

GL

This post was edited by Saucisson6000 on Mar 13 2019 07:33am

_______________________________________________




which benefits does the EU keep lying about? and what was that 'undemocratic' talking point about again?



speaking of dishonesty and 'skipping history classes': you know that framing it a certain way ("in its current form") might seem like a 'neat trick' to you, but it's blatantly obvious that you're just trying to dismiss one of the actual benefits of the EU and its predecessors - the peace and stability it created after WWII is undeniable. it IS a historical fact that a bit of lazy hackery can't invalidate.

Definitely agree on the last part.

A hard brexit would be good for me personally, but I’d rather leave with a deal because it would be better for the country.

The problem with getting a deal is that a solution to the Irish backstop probably doesn’t even exist. We’d have to hand over NI and that has a 0% chance of happening.

learn to read, then you can answer

what antifa idiots like you call "regressive populism and nationalism" was the core idea of the treaty of rome back in 1957
a europe of independent nations working together



do i really need to enlighten you about the EU having a massive democracy problem? seriously?

not to mention that they constantly violate their own fucking laws

the biggest lie is that the euro currency is benefical for europe, when that simply is not correct
another one would be security, the EU has massively worsened the situation in europe when it comes to security
they cant even be bothered to enforce the idea of the schengen concept (in fact it has been completely forgotten), which was about effective, joint, border security
instead open borders for everyone and everything

well, its nice for the simple minded, who dont have to exchange money on their trips
and please stop making deliberate and false misinterpretations about my opinions, i have stated several times (and you know it), that i fully support the core idea of the european union

however nobody needs unelected and overpaid morons from the european commission grabbing more and more power, nobody needs cucumber regulations or foreign bureaucrats telling national states what they have to do

that is not what the EU is supposed to be

p.s: a leftist like you talking about framing is the most ridiculous thing i have heard in a while

This post was edited by ampoo on Mar 13 2019 10:43am

LMK this is the treaty of Roma Preamble:

"
DETERMINED to lay the foundations of an ever-closer union among the peoples of Europe,
RESOLVED to ensure the economic and social progress of their countries by common action to eliminate the barriers which divide Europe,
AFFIRMING as the essential objective of their efforts the constant improvement of the living and working conditions of their peoples,
RECOGNISING that the removal of existing obstacles calls for concerted action in order to guarantee steady expansion, balanced trade and fair competition,
ANXIOUS to strengthen the unity of their economies and to ensure their harmonious development by reducing the differences existing between the various regions and the backwardness of the less favoured regions,
DESIRING to contribute, by means of a common commercial policy, to the progressive abolition of restrictions on international trade, I
NTENDING to confirm the solidarity which binds Europe and the overseas countries and desiring to ensure the development of their prosperity, in accordance with the principles of the Charter of the United Nations,
RESOLVED by thus pooling their resources to preserve and strengthen peace and liberty, and calling upon the other peoples of Europe who share their ideal to join in their efforts,
"

No way to compare your populist fucked bullshit with this.

Stop humiliating yourself.

oh sorry, i assumed you had an actual opinion for once, not just the lazy and countless times debunked moronic talking points of simple minded EU haters.
you know i agree on the bureaucratic madness and economically questionable eastern expansions part, but the 'undemocratic, lying, and power grabbing' monstrosity telling its member states what to do and making them insecure BS is merely the uncritical acceptance of fear mongering and propaganda by people who apparently didn't even bother to look into the facts of how the EU works and what it actually does.

oh, and your 'we already had peace for decades before it existed' talking point, trying to play down the role of the EU and its predecessors, has been exposed hard as well. don't know if it's ignorance or dishonesty, if you just missed your history lessons or if you deliberately framed it in a way that allows you to ignore context, but it's complete and utter bs.