Trump and his cult call journalists traitors and enemies of the state. That's a deadly serious accusation which can result in a death sentence. We can't just dismiss it because Trump and many of his supporters are not serious people.

I think some media figures have been careless with throwing around the word treason as it relates to the Russia investigation, but pretending every news network has called Trump a traitor is silly cult hyperbole.

I dismiss it for that reason partially, and because accusations of treason dont have deadly consequences, nor necessarily does a trial, nor necessarily does a conviction. treason doesn't = auto death. the media running with that is just more hyperbolic smearing of trump's hyperbolic statements and the hyperbolic echos from his followers. everyone involved needs to calm tf down.

treason, like "racist", "sexist", and many other words that have reached buzzword status are devalued. if you dont recognize this its because you're a 90 year old grandma who doesn't understand what the internet is or what it does to language, period. we already have a stupid environment where the consequences of being called racist can be dire, firing from job, ostracization, etc. Luckily a treason accusation can't be leveled the same way, as the punishment is subject to both due process and has constitutional bounds.

my position is pretty simple. is treason a good word to toss around, nope, it devalues a serious accusation the same way SJWs have devalued dozens of words and phrases (and the conservatives are not better with their hysterics around issues like Kaepernick or starbucks cups). but is it a death threat or call for death? no. that's just silly. it's a buzzword, that drastically devalues it's use. "enemy of the state", "traitor", etc. Hell even criminal and illegal are starting to circle the drain. people loosely use them to express moral arguments on a daily basis in pard with no legal backing, its an appeal to authority.

"i think its really criminal to be honest", (hyperbole pure and simple). "what they're doing is illegal", (based on a loose interpretation or under challenge lower court decision).

its all just big important words to trick simpletons.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Jul 12 2019 08:09am

Accusing someone of being a traitor or an enemy of the United States is a vastly more serious accusation than calling someone a racist or sexist. And it's particularly serious when the leader of the executive branch makes it. And yes, it's not the same as calling for someone to be executed, but it's flirting with the idea.

I know Trump is a deeply unserious person so people just think of him as another pundit on the level of Bill Maher... but we have to hold him just as accountable for his words as any normal president.

If you're not standing against the devaluing of the meaning of certain words, you're part of the problem.

Acosta resigning.

https://nyti.ms/2JuLYEw



This post was edited by Voyaging on Jul 12 2019 08:34am

you seem to be confusing my position. i stand against the devaluing of words. but i recognize where words are at as much as i try to stop them from moving. you can't acknowledge a word has moved in the lexicon without adjusting it's impact.

but an accusation of treason isn't a call for death. its a call for an investigation that has a small chance of leading to death for the accused.

is this the part where we play 47D chess and suggest that Trump is stacking the SCOTUS so he can levy treason claims against media members so his stooge judges will execute them and the day of "Trump is literally authoritarian fascist Hitler" has finally come?

my position is that you're being hyperbolic in response to hyperbole. just like how when Don Lemon, Rachel Maddow, and many other leftist journalists bring on legal experts to run down treason and suggest "Trump might be guilty of _____" on a weekly basis they're devaluing the legal system. this is why everyone got set up into thinking Mueller had a realistic chance of taking down trump. that was fucking dumb from the start, as i said from the start, and im right in the end. people should just leave the law to people who have at least a cursory understanding of it (not speaking of you). so many armchair lawyers that couldnt handle a day in court for a parking ticket.

overall holding trump to "treason = death" in a meta where it doesnt mean that linguistically and legally it doesnt mean that in any case is silly. its just another smear attempt at trump, and it hardens his base. just because a guy is covered in shit doesnt mean u cant smear on more. people talk about Trump's unshakeable base, but the media's treatment is as constant as their support.

why is it that people can devalue the president while at the same time demanding they be taken deadly seriously anyways?

"not my president", but also has to act presidential and can't say things loosely. but also we've had dozens of presidents who played it fast and loose, many of them far less bound by the law and congress than this president. even with expansions of EO power many presidents of the past walked over their congresses or had stooge congresses to do their bidding. many of which are known as heroes of this nation.

presidents arent nice guys and shouldn't be required to speak truthfully in real time, they're people. they should be held to factual scrutiny in hindsight and in trump's case should be far better at admitting fault. then again does the media run front page news when they get it dead wrong? no, of course not. it's on to the next story.

the narratives that a "presidential behavior" is required is just as silly as the idea of journalistic integrity. they're both bullshit political phrases used to cloud the perspective of laypeople. fake news president vs fake news media, both are right, neither should be surprising.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Jul 12 2019 08:46am

What does America do to it's enemies? What is one of the punishments for treason against the United States?

You're trying to create a bunch of distance between these labels and someone dying. There's not that much space. Rhetorically, what Trump and the cult is doing is putting journalists and others in the same category of people who we either hunt down and kill, or we have a trial and execute or throw in prison for life. It's the sort of thing that fractures American society, into the real Americans(Trump supporters) and the enemies of America(people who oppose or are an inconvenience to the president).

This is serious stuff. I'm not saying it's going to lead to the US government killing journalists or anything crazy like that, but it sets up an environment where there's simply no national unity on anything. The other side is evil, the other side's election means the end of America, etc etc.



I think half the cabinet are acting secretaries.

This post was edited by IceMage on Jul 12 2019 08:53am

its a small contributing factor to the massive divide in american society. its a pinch of salt in a big pot of gumbo really.

the distance between an accusation of treason on twitter and death is:

1. actual proof of treason to require a charge
2. likely some massive grand jury process
3. a trial by due process following the 4th amendment
4. likely several further appellate courses
5. a supreme court case
6. a sentence of death

none of these processes involve the president directly doing anything other than telling the DOJ "look into it", again unless we're playing 47D chess.

if we're all being honest Trump could be the most centrist POTUS ever, he could turn heel and become a peach in public, and nothing at all would happen to the divide in society. his cult would say the jews got to him and find a new messiah.

want big impact? delete facebook/twitter/youtube/etc from existence, make comment sections illegal.

people are fucking nutjob whackos. them all being able to engage is the divide, trump is the product of that divide.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Jul 12 2019 08:59am

That distance closes a bit when a random citizen picks up an AR-15 and walks into the offices of enemies of the United States.

You can minimize all you want, I think I've made my points clear.

what on earth does that have to do with treason tho? thats a consequence of modern political rhetoric and social media.

100% of people in congress who aren't hermits have gotten death threats, regardless of their mundane positions.

Democrats run an ad with fake dog caged children or Obama era detention center photos. AOC retweets them all as does Pelosi. thats the kind of shit the leads to softball practice attacks.

people who think Trump is the driving force behind political division in the USA need their head checked. go arrest Zuckerberg, he's the culprit. he's Frankenstein, yet the monster gets all the vilification. what do people expect? trump leaves in 2024 and the country reverts to a happy place? we've got another 50+ years of this or more, if we're lucky. we're in the slalom hill. the learning curve. like in limitless when he takes the pill and its too overwhelming, then he normalizes. we're all hearing each other, and thats a huge problem. all the divisions were always there, they were just contained.

my advice is to focus on the big stuff, like trump literally saying "get him out of here, rough him up" at a rally. if we're in a place where "omg he said treason, omg omg" being literal violence we're at peak hyperbole. same goes for listening to AOC & co.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Jul 12 2019 09:23am