It's still really impossible to compare Obama to anyone since his presidency is ongoing. Most of the already-scarce surveys of historians and presidential scholars that have been conducted since 2009 have excluded him anyway and with good reason: it's practically pointless to lay down a marker in an ongoing presidency -- had someone tried in January they'd have missed several historic, legacy-defining victories (Iran, normalizing relations with Cuba, SSM) that other presidents would base their entire argument on but that have become par for the course for rapid-fire Obama. It's going to be really interesting to see what the scholars think about Obama's presidency when he moves out of the spotlight and becomes necessarily more-popular like they all do. He's definitely going to get the biography and character boosts and should easily hold his current standing of being a well-above-average president, but he could legitimately go down as the most accomplished modern president after time passes.

All the ingredients are there. The scholars rarely miss the unnoticed/unappreciated presidential feats that the general public almost always does, and there are a ton of policy victories lurking in Obama's record with a ton of room to grow. Stuff like credit card reform and student loan reform, those are the kinds of things that the scholars give high praise for because in 20-30 years when future presidents build on those and get their legacy-defining domestic accomplishments they're going to look back on who made it possible. Getting the banks out of the student loan process where they didn't belong and were totally unnecessary was a major, major accomplishment on its own.

This post was edited by Pollster on Sep 7 2015 03:55am

Head to head Trump wins against every candidate, on either side of the fence.

A completely unbiased judgement call

Trump will feel the Bern.

#classwar2016

One day. A single day. Really?

That's the strategy of the left. Bernie pits Americans against each other. Trump say we'll make America great again.

Meh, 99.9% vs. .1% isn't exactly a civil war. Libertarians believe that individuals can rely on the benevolence of paternal business firms who view individuals under their employ as just one factor of labor to manipulate and do with as they please. It is like to be a capitalist you have to immediately compromise treating people as people and not objects. And I do it too. If I'm at a restaurant, and a waitress is talking too much, I feel like "wtf, you're a waitress, refill my tea and gtfo" beyond pleasantries, which is shitty and a socialized trait. I think it is funny that in places I've been in Europe it is rude to ask people what they do, because what does it matter? In the US it is the first thing people ask each other and result in an insane amount of social calculations immediately.

Trump is pretty cool and I think he is pretty badass. I'm not going to disparage him because first off I don't have anything bad to say about him, and second, if I did have anything to say, I wouldn't say it, because he is one of those people who will actually retaliate against you for any perceived transgression. Plus I'm sure he has done a staggering amount of charity and philanthropy personally, and much good through taxes surrendered for social and economic programs as well.

This post was edited by Skinned on Sep 7 2015 08:32pm

Right you'll disparage libertarians with a ridiculous strawman but Trump, hes good in your book.
Allowing people to voluntarily work together = treating people as objects and relying on benevolence? no.

welcome to the dark side