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Jan 28 2015 07:25am
Quote (2sexy4u @ Jan 27 2015 11:39pm)
It's ok for a depressed believer to find help in his relation with God, but depressive person indoctrination is just another abuse. I don't expect who were "saved" by God to reject there religion and find a new reason to be happy, but we must focus helping next generations finding more solid ressources than mythology and superstitions.


I do love abusing adults with messages of being a better person and eternal life.

Quote (XxAdrielJeremiahGreebxX @ Jan 28 2015 05:33am)
How do you know for a fact being white had nothing to do with it?


How do I know for a fact that my brown hair had nothing to do with it?
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Jan 28 2015 07:44am
So Scaly, were you waiting for my 'grand' return? Do you want to hear my thoughts?
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Jan 28 2015 07:47am
Quote (CPK001 @ 28 Jan 2015 13:44)
So Scaly, were you waiting for my 'grand' return? Do you want to hear my thoughts?


If you must... though I expect an almost illegible wall of preaching with no actual content but go on.
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Jan 28 2015 07:48am
Quote (Scaly @ Jan 28 2015 11:47pm)
If you must... though I expect an almost illegible wall of preaching with no actual content but go on.


I'll do it tomorrow, almost my bed time actually.
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Jan 28 2015 01:35pm
Quote (IceMage @ Jan 28 2015 09:25am)
I do love abusing adults with messages of being a better person and eternal life.



you are the victim, not the aggressor

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Jan 28 2015 01:43pm
Quote (2sexy4u @ Jan 28 2015 02:35pm)
you are the victim, not the aggressor


Ah, more victim ideology from a liberal atheist. Surprise surprise.
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Jan 28 2015 02:17pm
Quote (IceMage @ 28 Jan 2015 08:25)
I do love abusing adults with messages of being a better person and eternal life.



How do I know for a fact that my brown hair had nothing to do with it?



I'll bet it was those big hands and feet
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Jan 28 2015 07:36pm
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Emotional abuse

The story of Jesus' tortuous death is integral to christianity in general. One of the first things an indoctrinated child is taught is that he went through all of this to pay for their indiscretions. Authoritarion, fundamentalist parents will go as far as telling their children that they are sinners. That they are bad people. That Jesus suffered and died because they are a bad person.
Children are not bad people, most of them anyway, we all make mistakes. Everyone lies, most people have stolen something but this doesn't mean you are inherently evil. The way Christianity works is to instill guilt into people, disproportionate guilt for the crimes they have committed. The image of christ's broken and battered body hanging on the cross is everywhere to remind people of how he died for their evil acts. This is not something a child should have to think about. Would you tell your children in graphic detail of anyone else's death? Would you then tell them that it was their fault?


Not in my experience. What I learnt as a child, what I see others teaching the children and what I've been teaching children firstly is the love of Christ. You learn about John 3:16, you learn about Jesus and the miracles he did. You learn about God's covenant with Abraham. The law came through Moses, the only thing the law did is to show us that we are indeed sinners and that
we cannot hold onto God's law.

However, you do not come to that realization until you are an adult, not a child. If you are taught about that as a child, it would just go straight over your head. As an adult, once you realize how much of a sinner you are, you come to appreciate the Cross all the more. He who has been forgiven little will show little appreciation. He who has been forgiven a lot will show a lot of appreciation. All in all, a child doesn't have to think about themselves being sinners as they should be thinking about the love of Christ.

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You are broken and need to be fixed - only god can do that.

Along with this idea of their inherent 'badness' comes the constant reminder that they are broken. That they are not good enough. That they must seek and find god else they cannot change and moreover even if they do find god they will never be good enough for god. In atheist circles this is often jokingly referred to as convincing someone they have a disease and then offering them the watered down version of the cure. The cure that they must come back and get every Sunday or else. Unfortunately this is no joke. This is really what people do to children by indoctrinating them - by infecting them with the disease of Christianity.


So we're broken spiritually and need to be fixed spiritually. Only God can do that. So do you think we're not broken or that there is another solution? So you don't like this because of this, how do you think it really is?

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Developmental abuse

Fundamentalist and especially creationist religion destroys people's ability to think critically and instills in them a distrust of scientists and 'outsiders' and complete unquestioning dependency on religious authority figures. From an early age they are taught to mistrust or even outright dismiss anything that goes against what they are taught - along with this comes the inability to change their ideas or opinions and always act upon their preconceptions regardless of the evidence presented to them. Not only does this culture of unquestioning loyalty to religious authority figures make people extremely open to manipulation it also opens the door for actual physical abuse that is ignored or covered up by people who are indoctrinated into revering these authority figures, though admittedly not a common occurrence it is statistically significantly more likely that an abused child's abuser in the US will be a christian authority figure, which brings me to my next topic in this thread


I like reading between the lines, from what I read here it follows that your mind, Scaly, can still be changed and you can still come to believe! As for a Christian Authority Figure, they will be judged more strictly. Before they come to teach they will first fully understand the ramifications of becoming a teacher.

James 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

As for unquestioning loyalty to Religious Authority Figures -

Hebrews 13: 17 Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.

Ofcourse, since we are adults, we have the knowledge to know when to submit and when to not listen to them. We are smart enough to know when something is up.

I'll address the others later on today.
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Jan 29 2015 05:12am
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Sexual and psychosexual abuse

Obviously we've already covered the heirarchical structures that allow for the physical abuse and sexual abuse of children to take place and i could go into the proliferation of this type of thing within the catholic church especially but also in other churches and religions (Islam also being very guilty in this area) but what I really want to talk about are the common themes that induce psychosexual trauma in developing children. I am big on lgbt rights and I could go on for quite some time about the guilt and fear associated with being born gay into a christian environment but we've covered a lot of it in the conversion therapy threads already.

What people may not realise is that there is also a huge culture of shame attached to any sexual activity within religion. Religions are obsessed with sex. you can't have it before marriage, you can't masturbate, you can't even look upon a woman with lust in your heart without feeling guilty for it. Unfortunately for people born into these religious families and societies sexuality is a very pervasive part of the human experience and for children going through puberty this is especially true. There's all these new feelings and you can't speak about them. They are wrong and shameful. This kind of sexual repression is extremely unhealthy and while I can see the value in not being overly promiscuous children still need to talk about sex. There is nothing wrong with looking at a girl and thinking 'wow, she's hot' but as a Christian this may bring on feelings of guilt and shame and reinforce the other ideas of being an awful person and your dependance on these religious authority figures that can 'save' you from your evil thoughts and deeds.

In truth you are likely never going to stop young boys masturbating or looking at girls unless you terrify them with tales of eternal torture enough that they are scared of their own sexuality which brings me to my final point


So now we're talking about sexual immorality. What does The Bible say about that? Well we must first define Sexual Immorality.

After doing a quick search the following is what is considered Sexually Immoral: Committing adultery, (Exodus 20:14 - You shall not commit adultery), Fornification [(generally consensual sexual intercourse between two people not married to each other. Hebrews 13:4 - Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.]) There is also Sexual perversions - You shall not approach any blood relative and uncover his nakedness, you shall not have any sexual intercourse with any animal to be defiled in it, you as a man shall not lie with another man as a man lies with a woman. You as a woman shall not lie with another woman as a woman lies with a man. Finally, Immorality of the mind (This is the sinful nature that provokes every man to lust sexually after another woman other than their wife.) It is up to us to be responsible to control our mind and our eyes. Unfortunately this is easier said than done. We're all guilty of this sin, especially through the teenage years.

So now that we have defined Sexual Immorality, please tell me how doing any of these aren't defiling your body and not an abomination?

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Terrorism

One of the dictionary definitions of terrorism is -

Terrorism
1. a method of government or of resisting government involving domination or coercion by various forms of intimidation

What else is religion other than a method of governing people through fear? 'You will suffer eternal torture if you don't repeatedly reaffirm your devotion to your god, if you don't strive to attain these impossible standards set by religion.' For children and for the deeply indoctrinated 'hell' is a very real thing... even some of those who have stopped believing still have nightmares of being in hell for rejecting their religion. They know this is illogical but they have developed a phobia from a young age when they were abused by their parents and their communities and their churches and it positively changes their brain chemistry to the point where even though they know it's not logical they are still haunted by this constant terror. I'll talk about this a lot more in my next thread on this subject which will be on religious trauma syndrome as a means of demonstrating the actual psychological harm that religion does.

For now the topic is religious indoctrination of children being child abuse.


Twisting the truth again are we? Instead of "I will send you towards your doom unless you obey me," consider - "You are already heading towards your doom but I can save you from that. I want to save you because I love you."
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Jan 29 2015 05:27am
Quote (CPK001 @ 29 Jan 2015 11:12)
So now we're talking about sexual immorality. What does The Bible say about that? Well we must first define Sexual Immorality.

After doing a quick search the following is what is considered Sexually Immoral: Committing adultery, (Exodus 20:14 - You shall not commit adultery), Fornification [(generally consensual sexual intercourse between two people not married to each other. Hebrews 13:4 - Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.]) There is also Sexual perversions - You shall not approach any blood relative and uncover his nakedness, you shall not have any sexual intercourse with any animal to be defiled in it, you as a man shall not lie with another man as a man lies with a woman. You as a woman shall not lie with another woman as a woman lies with a man. Finally, Immorality of the mind (This is the sinful nature that provokes every man to lust sexually after another woman other than their wife.) It is up to us to be responsible to control our mind and our eyes. Unfortunately this is easier said than done. We're all guilty of this sin, especially through the teenage years.

So now that we have defined Sexual Immorality, please tell me how doing any of these aren't defiling your body and not an abomination?


So much so I'll just pick the easy one and run with it for now.

Fornication, homosexuality and 'immorality of the mind' are all natural parts of human sexuality.

Having sex before marriage is not 'defiling your body' and the culture of shame that this belief creates is essential for the control of religious adherents. Uncontrollable, natural emotions like these need to be talked about at the very least and the harm that is done to people by suppressing these things or through others oppressing people for them is immeasurable. How many suicide notes from gay kids do we need to read before you realise that these teachings are incredibly harmful and oppressive?

This post was edited by Scaly on Jan 29 2015 05:28am
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