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Mar 5 2023 05:40pm
Quote (Sioux @ Mar 5 2023 05:31pm)
Weird conclusion from a chart that says 75% of Americans support legal abortions. The fact that abortion restriction lost on the ballot in Kansas, Kentucky and Montana would indicate this view has broad support on both sides once you get out of your extreme right wing bubble.


His rhetorical trick is conflating "supports some form of abortion" with "wants universal access to abortion in any and all cases".

Even the most stringest leftists rarely think that a baby 2 seconds from delivery can be aborted, and so would not fall on that latter case.
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Mar 5 2023 06:03pm
Life begins at conception, period.


You cannot draw some arbitrary line saying, “oh here is life I guess, not a second before.”


There is no middle ground. Life starts at conception.
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Mar 5 2023 06:12pm
Quote (fender @ Mar 5 2023 05:42pm)
thanks for providing proof that the current republican course (illegal under all circumstances) is highly unpopular (just 13%) - much more so than the other extreme (legal under all circumstances), which over a third of the population support. it's quite clearly a losing issue, but religious bigots obviously don't care about facts or popular support at all - they just want to see their fundamentalist ideas implemented, no matter who supports it and who gets hurt by it. republican taliban logic backfired, lol...


The most "extreme" Republican law in the past several years has been the heartbeat bill, restricting abortion after 6-weeks. That is popular with large segments of the American public, especially in the states where those laws were passed. Restricting access to abortion at 15 weeks is broadly popular with the American public at large, and is the default Republican position. Contrast that to Democratic politicians who can't find a single instance of abortion they don't support, and struggle in press conferences to express any position other than "legal up to (and shortly after) birth".

https://www.wsj.com/articles/support-for-15-week-abortion-ban-outweighs-opposition-wsj-poll-finds-11648821601
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Mar 5 2023 06:29pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Mar 5 2023 06:12pm)
The most "extreme" Republican law in the past several years has been the heartbeat bill, restricting abortion after 6-weeks. That is popular with large segments of the American public, especially in the states where those laws were passed. Restricting access to abortion at 15 weeks is broadly popular with the American public at large, and is the default Republican position. Contrast that to Democratic politicians who can't find a single instance of abortion they don't support, and struggle in press conferences to express any position other than "legal up to (and shortly after) birth".

https://www.wsj.com/articles/support-for-15-week-abortion-ban-outweighs-opposition-wsj-poll-finds-11648821601


The default Republican position is a total ban. What you're referencing is the step they want to take because it's the only practical one available.
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Mar 5 2023 07:10pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Mar 5 2023 05:20pm)
life begins at conception, but sometimes it is complicated.

1) it's better than murdering the mother in rare medical cases
2) in extremely rare circumstances (extreme poverty, violent environment, uniquely intolerable personal circumstances) murdering the baby may be the lesser of two evils



tl;dr


hmmm... i wonder what locations might apply for this treatment
:ph34r:
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Mar 5 2023 07:16pm
Quote (bogie160 @ 6 Mar 2023 01:12)
The most "extreme" Republican law in the past several years has been the heartbeat bill, restricting abortion after 6-weeks. That is popular with large segments of the American public, especially in the states where those laws were passed. Restricting access to abortion at 15 weeks is broadly popular with the American public at large, and is the default Republican position. Contrast that to Democratic politicians who can't find a single instance of abortion they don't support, and struggle in press conferences to express any position other than "legal up to (and shortly after) birth".

https://www.wsj.com/articles/support-for-15-week-abortion-ban-outweighs-opposition-wsj-poll-finds-11648821601


assuming you haven't literally been living under a rock for the past decades, that's an incredibly dishonest characterisation of the republican position. in most red states, republicans have been introducing legislation to make abortion practically unavailable for a long time, creating all sorts of obstacles for healthcare providers and women to make it as difficult as possible to get an abortion - particularly for vulnerable, poor, and young people. since the supreme circus overturned roe v wade, republican lawmakers have gone all-in on trying to outright ban abortion in countless states.

regarding its popularity, i will refer you to the updated version of YOUR chosen poll:



you can see, the republican position is incredibly unpopular. thanks for playing. xD
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Mar 5 2023 07:45pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Mar 5 2023 06:29pm)
The default Republican position is a total ban. What you're referencing is the step they want to take because it's the only practical one available.



This is a fact. The only consistent and moral position is a total abortion ban with not one single exception.
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Mar 5 2023 08:09pm
Quote (YeeHaw @ Mar 5 2023 07:45pm)
This is a fact. The only consistent and moral position is a total abortion ban with not one single exception.


Don't forget to strip the Dr's that did it of their license for breaking their oath.
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Mar 5 2023 08:34pm
Quote (fender @ Mar 5 2023 08:16pm)
assuming you haven't literally been living under a rock for the past decades, that's an incredibly dishonest characterisation of the republican position. in most red states, republicans have been introducing legislation to make abortion practically unavailable for a long time, creating all sorts of obstacles for healthcare providers and women to make it as difficult as possible to get an abortion - particularly for vulnerable, poor, and young people. since the supreme circus overturned roe v wade, republican lawmakers have gone all-in on trying to outright ban abortion in countless states.

regarding its popularity, i will refer you to the updated version of YOUR chosen poll:

https://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/n1epb8n1p0qai4wlrwpuea.png

you can see, the republican position is incredibly unpopular. thanks for playing. xD


Republicans advocate for specific laws (i.e. the "heartbeat bill") which make it explicitly clear where they stand on the issue. They write the law, they pass the law. And those laws are popular, as I just linked you in the last post.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/support-for-15-week-abortion-ban-outweighs-opposition-wsj-poll-finds-11648821601

Quote
With lawmakers in several states pushing forward with bills that would ban abortion after 15 weeks of pregnancy, 48% of voters said they would strongly or somewhat favor such restrictions, with exemptions to protect the health of the mother, while 43% were in opposition.


Republicans pass laws restricting abortion in either the first or second trimester. Democrats refuse to verbalize any restriction on abortion. The former is in broad agreement with the American public, the latter is an extreme position supported by fringe activists. If the Democrats were clever, they'd pivot back to Clinton's "safe, legal, and rare". But we all know the party is too far gone to entertain that.
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