d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Cowardice In Politics On Full Display
Prev12345611Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 53,368
Joined: Sep 2 2004
Gold: 57.00
Jul 14 2021 12:18pm
another day and we have two of the palest pastiest privileged lefties crying about their usual stuff in another thread.

thor screaming that minorities cannot follow directions
heinrich randomly inserting brutal and violent crimes against minors

it really is a sickness for these two -_-
Member
Posts: 64,763
Joined: Oct 25 2006
Gold: 0.00
Jul 14 2021 12:36pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Jul 14 2021 12:46pm)
restricting voting rights isn't undermining democracy if it's democratically supported.

its stupid, the law is ineffectual, and Texans are idiots for thinking it's going to "stop the steal" in the future, but not inherently undemocratic if supported.

the problem is "restricting voting rights" is a buzzword that people react to emotionally.


Lots of things that are totally unacceptable get passed in a Democratic fashion. I don't find the argument that "it was passed Democratically, therefore it supports Democracy" to be all that convincing.
Member
Posts: 92,993
Joined: Dec 31 2007
Gold: 2,299.94
Jul 14 2021 12:40pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Jul 14 2021 01:36pm)
Lots of things that are totally unacceptable get passed in a Democratic fashion. I don't find the argument that "it was passed Democratically, therefore it supports Democracy" to be all that convincing.


there's a simple 2 stage test for democratic. Is it supported by a majority of the population of a given area, and did the representatives in that area then vote for the popular thing. that's democracy. even if the thing itself is an attack on the democracy or democratic process itself.

in this case, the democrats, seemingly on the side of making a more fair democratic process that encourages more votes to be counted, are not acting democratically.

but overall the thread has devolved to polarized finger pointing, because i think most people agree skipping out on votes is a generally cowardly practice.
Member
Posts: 64,763
Joined: Oct 25 2006
Gold: 0.00
Jul 14 2021 12:46pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Jul 14 2021 01:40pm)
there's a simple 2 stage test for democratic. Is it supported by a majority of the population of a given area, and did the representatives in that area then vote for the popular thing. that's democracy. even if the thing itself is an attack on the democracy or democratic process itself.

in this case, the democrats, seemingly on the side of making a more fair democratic process that encourages more votes to be counted, are not acting democratically.

but overall the thread has devolved to polarized finger pointing, because i think most people agree skipping out on votes is a generally cowardly practice.


Okay, so you've made a definition of "democratic".

So what?

I don't think it's cowardly to have a warrant out for your arrest if you return to your home state because you're using the rules to obstruct something you see as very very bad for your electorate or for the democratic nature of the process. Strategic retreat isn't cowardly. Obstructing the process and arguing against the merits are not mutually exclusive.

This post was edited by NetflixAdaptationWidow on Jul 14 2021 12:47pm
Member
Posts: 30,165
Joined: Sep 10 2004
Gold: 0.00
Warn: 30%
Jul 14 2021 12:47pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 14 Jul 2021 20:14)
A large chunk of these "massive, democracy-undermining" restrictions are just a rollback of the expansion of voting rights which took place during the pandemic. Covid gave Democrats cover to change voting rules in a way that benefitted them, and now they're calling it an "assault on democracy" when Republicans try to go back to the status quo ante.

I would agree with them if their criticism was actually focused on the parts of the Republican bills which go back further than the old status quo, like the stuff with handing water to voter queues in Georgia, but they decry even really benign stuff which only brings us back to where we left off in 2019 as 'undemocratic'. :rolleyes:


not only is that factually wrong, it would also not justify the disenfranchisement of voters - just because they have been historically disenfranchised, lol.

had there been ANY kind of widespread / systematic voter fraud in ANY of the states that republicans launched initiatives to RESTRICT VOTING ACCESS, i could see how they would at least be able to make a halfway credible argument about trying to "secure" the elections. FACT, however, is that no such thing happened ANYWHERE.

and again, everybody (apart from maybe some completely deluded conspiracists) already KNOWS that. everybody KNOWS the quiet part of those legislations, everybody is painfully aware of what this is really about - it's just that one side desperately has to pretend this is about something else, because voter suppression is literally the only way for them to remain relevant...
Member
Posts: 92,993
Joined: Dec 31 2007
Gold: 2,299.94
Jul 14 2021 12:52pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Jul 14 2021 01:46pm)
Okay, so you've made a definition of "democratic".

So what?

I don't think it's cowardly to have a warrant out for your arrest if you return to your home state because you're using the rules to obstruct something you see as very very bad for your electorate or for the democratic nature of the process. Strategic retreat isn't cowardly. Obstructing the process and arguing against the merits are not mutually exclusive.


I didnt make it, its basic english.

if they end up in jail or kicked out of office for their actions i'll be happy to retract calling them cowards, they're still idiots, but they can be brave idiots if that happens.

elsewise they're virtue signaling for voter rights, not on the merits of this law because as black noted its a rollback to pre-covid metas afaik, but because voter rights is a buzz phrase they HAVE to fight for automatically. even if the enemies arent really at the gates. most voters rights initiatives have merit, sometimes u just end up in jail fighting for something that's stupid.
Member
Posts: 30,165
Joined: Sep 10 2004
Gold: 0.00
Warn: 30%
Jul 14 2021 01:22pm
Member
Posts: 9,155
Joined: May 11 2009
Gold: 5.01
Jul 14 2021 02:10pm
USA != democracy, we are more of a constitutional republic. Elected pathetic democratic representatives trying to leverage more than they have.
Member
Posts: 92,993
Joined: Dec 31 2007
Gold: 2,299.94
Jul 14 2021 02:30pm
Quote (RedFromWinter @ Jul 14 2021 03:10pm)
USA != democracy, we are more of a constitutional republic. Elected pathetic democratic representatives trying to leverage more than they have.


can we have democracy even if we aren't a democracy? the democrats are acting undemocratic in pursuit of more democracy in our undemocracy.
Member
Posts: 33,927
Joined: Oct 9 2008
Gold: 2,528.52
Jul 14 2021 05:05pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Jul 13 2021 10:07am)
https://nypost.com/2021/07/13/texas-gov-abbott-vows-to-have-missing-dem-lawmakers-arrested/

This type of behavior is in no way practiced by just one side, this is an act we've seen repeated over and over by both sides.

Fleeing votes, a similar case in Wisconsin comes to mind where democrats fled a vote by Scott Walker as governor, and later the Republicans fled a vote under Evers the democratic governor.

In the federal legislature we have poor attendance even on typical legislative votes, and ABYSMAL attendance when bills are being read in their entirety.

If this is your job you should be ready and able to vote, attend meetings, attend readings, etc 5 days a week. Minimum. Monday through Friday 8-10 hours a day.

If you have official business back in your district or scheduled vacation there should be a robust proxy voting system in play.


Well yea, but TRUMP RUSSIAA

REEEEEEE
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev12345611Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll