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Mar 18 2021 11:12pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Mar 18 2021 06:50pm)
I'd say I'm surprised you're finding kinship with TiStuff but thinking about our interactions he seems to be about your level.


if you don't realize that was a compliment to you and an outright dismissal of tistuff, you are literally as stupid as i feared



Quote (EndlessSky @ Mar 18 2021 06:54pm)
At least toasters serve a purpose.



endless gets it.

Quote (Plaguefear @ Mar 18 2021 06:59pm)
He says unironically to the guy with 21 trash posts in the top 50 posts right now.


you are obsessed with the wrong things brother

This post was edited by proccy on Mar 18 2021 11:14pm
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Mar 19 2021 12:07am
Quote (proccy @ Mar 18 2021 07:37pm)
arguing with thor is like arguing with a toaster. it's better to just listen because 1/100 times he has something useful to say


Lol
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Mar 19 2021 06:48am
Quote (TiStuff @ 18 Mar 2021 22:46)
atheism a mystery in it self. It is asserted that life it self arouse by some kind of random accidental process and by random accident arose logic? (makes sense?) or? its just random chemical reactions in the brain making them think they are logical. An atheist if some logic is present cant be sure of anything and now the most unthinkable thing has happened. They are "reduced" to believing by faith. (there definition of faith not the biblical definition of faith)

so I think you have the wrong question? but you are correct that there is no "objective wrong"

the atheist has brought more horror to this world than all other things combined. what value is there to life if its just a accident? there can only be one truism? might makes right, and what kind of world would that be like to live in?

we are in luck? that experiment has already been tried. Its called communism and has under gone the scientific method. testable observable and repeated over and over.

Atheist Governments of the 20th Century: The Death Toll of Godless Goodness

Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,00 people murdered

Jozef Stalin (USSR 1932-39 only) 15,000,000 people murdered

Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000 people murdered

Kim II Sung (North Korea 1948-94) 1.6 million people murdered

Tito (Yugoslavia 1945-1987) 570,000 people murdered

Suharto (Communists 1967-66) 500,000 people murdered

Ante Pavelic (Croatia 1941-45) 359,000 people murdered

Ho Chi Min (Vietnam 1953-56) 200,000 people murdered

Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 people murdered

Adolf Hitler (Germany 1939-1945) 12,000,000 people murdered


Your logic is flawed all over the place. Firstly, atheists don't assert that life is "self aroused" atheism is literally a disbelief in any specific god. That's is all there is to it. When you start trying to attach more to atheism than that, you are simply building a straw man argument. I honestly don't understand how you got to atheist + logic = faith.... that's just outright not true. Tying atheist's to communism and then Hitler and Stalin is about the same as me saying all religion = certain catholic priests = pedophiles therefore all religious people are pedophiles... I'm sure you can see the flaw in this logic...

The problem with your big "list of evil atheists" is that none of these wars were "fought in the name of atheism" they were just evil people who didn't practice a certain faith.

no one fights in the name of "lack of belief"... show me a list of martyrs and I'll show you a list of religious people... spoiler alert, it will be the same list.
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Mar 19 2021 10:50am
Quote (memoorhouse @ Mar 19 2021 05:48am)
Your logic is flawed all over the place. Firstly, atheists don't assert that life is "self aroused" atheism is literally a disbelief in any specific god. That's is all there is to it. When you start trying to attach more to atheism than that, you are simply building a straw man argument. I honestly don't understand how you got to atheist + logic = faith.... that's just outright not true. Tying atheist's to communism and then Hitler and Stalin is about the same as me saying all religion = certain catholic priests = pedophiles therefore all religious people are pedophiles... I'm sure you can see the flaw in this logic...

The problem with your big "list of evil atheists" is that none of these wars were "fought in the name of atheism" they were just evil people who didn't practice a certain faith.

no one fights in the name of "lack of belief"... show me a list of martyrs and I'll show you a list of religious people... spoiler alert, it will be the same list.


"self aroused" WTF kind of garbage word is that??? its called abiogenesis and evolution,

if you have no origin answers and want to be that kind of atheist then why are you trying to explain anything at all?

you said: "I'm sure you can see the flaw in this logic..."
(certainly can see the flaw in your logic)

you said: ""fought in the name of atheism"
(being an atheist is a declaration of their own godhood. to deny God is a godhood claim. its not "fighting in the name of atheism" or "lack of belief" its fighting in the name of their own godhood.

you said: "show me a list of martyrs and I'll show you a list of religious people... spoiler alert, it will be the same list."
( your trying to make an argument out of the definition of "martyr"? a martyr doesnt have to be religious.)
mar·tyr
/ˈmärdər/
Learn to pronounce
noun
plural noun: martyrs

a person who is killed because of their religious or other beliefs.

you said: ""list of evil atheists"
(how come they are evil?)

This post was edited by TiStuff on Mar 19 2021 10:52am
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Mar 19 2021 11:52am
Quote (TiStuff @ 19 Mar 2021 12:50)
"self aroused" WTF kind of garbage word is that??? its called abiogenesis and evolution,

if you have no origin answers and want to be that kind of atheist then why are you trying to explain anything at all?

you said: "I'm sure you can see the flaw in this logic..."
(certainly can see the flaw in your logic)

you said: ""fought in the name of atheism"
(being an atheist is a declaration of their own godhood. to deny God is a godhood claim. its not "fighting in the name of atheism" or "lack of belief" its fighting in the name of their own godhood.

you said: "show me a list of martyrs and I'll show you a list of religious people... spoiler alert, it will be the same list."
( your trying to make an argument out of the definition of "martyr"? a martyr doesnt have to be religious.)
mar·tyr
/ˈmärdər/
Learn to pronounce
noun
plural noun: martyrs

a person who is killed because of their religious or other beliefs.

you said: ""list of evil atheists"
(how come they are evil?)


"self aroused" is straight up on me, I misread your post and was misquoting you, I will concede that point is nonsense.

as for the rest of this post...


You said "if you have no origin answers and want to be that kind of atheist then why are you trying to explain anything at all?" That's the entire point! I'm not trying to make up an explanation for an unknown... nor am I willing to accept anyone else's made up explanation as fact simply because they - or some old books - said so!

As for the grammar police bit - it's right in this forums decorum "Don’t pick on people for mistakes in spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc.. We don’t need “Grammar Police”. Just let it be" - there's a reason they put this there, it does not increase the validity of your point.

with regards to "being an atheist is a declaration of their own godhood." what kind of total made up garbage is that. being an atheist means not believing in any god (that would include being god yourself...) religious people are the ones that claim to "know god" and "know gods will", claiming that denying god is a godhood claim is just utter nonsense.

as for your comment about the definition of martyr, I never claimed to redefine it, I was merely pointing out that almost all martyrs are religious since your list seems to imply that atheism causes war - I'd love to see factual numbers on the amount of wars/casualties caused by fighting directly in the name of religion as opposed to fighting in the name of atheism...

Lastly you said "how come they are evil" with reference to your list... you listed every single one of them as the murder of 10's of thousands if not millions of people... if you're actually claiming you don't see the murder of that many people as evil, I'm not sure how to explain it better.

This post was edited by memoorhouse on Mar 19 2021 11:53am
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Mar 19 2021 01:39pm
Quote (TiStuff @ Mar 18 2021 10:46pm)
atheism a mystery in it self. It is asserted that life it self arouse...

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Mar 19 2021 02:42pm
Quote (beotos @ 19 Mar 2021 15:39)


I realized afterwards he meant arose and was trying to take the high road here :lol:
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Mar 19 2021 08:08pm
Quote (memoorhouse @ Mar 19 2021 10:52am)
"self aroused" is straight up on me, I misread your post and was misquoting you, I will concede that point is nonsense.

as for the rest of this post...


You said "if you have no origin answers and want to be that kind of atheist then why are you trying to explain anything at all?" That's the entire point! I'm not trying to make up an explanation for an unknown... nor am I willing to accept anyone else's made up explanation as fact simply because they - or some old books - said so!

As for the grammar police bit - it's right in this forums decorum "Don’t pick on people for mistakes in spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc.. We don’t need “Grammar Police”. Just let it be" - there's a reason they put this there, it does not increase the validity of your point.

with regards to "being an atheist is a declaration of their own godhood." what kind of total made up garbage is that. being an atheist means not believing in any god (that would include being god yourself...) religious people are the ones that claim to "know god" and "know gods will", claiming that denying god is a godhood claim is just utter nonsense.

as for your comment about the definition of martyr, I never claimed to redefine it, I was merely pointing out that almost all martyrs are religious since your list seems to imply that atheism causes war - I'd love to see factual numbers on the amount of wars/casualties caused by fighting directly in the name of religion as opposed to fighting in the name of atheism...

Lastly you said "how come they are evil" with reference to your list... you listed every single one of them as the murder of 10's of thousands if not millions of people... if you're actually claiming you don't see the murder of that many people as evil, I'm not sure how to explain it better.



fair enough, i could have chosen a better word.

if your an atheist but you offer no explanations you should not have started an argument if you cant/wont even attempt to back it up. I dont think i brought up scripture you did, do you want to talk about scripture?

what grammar police bit?

the assertion "no god" by necessity is a claim to some kind of omni knowledge, therefore "godhood" or perhaps your are an atheist by whim? If you are an atheist by whim you have no argument and should not have started one.

i already provided a list of atheist nations and the resulting misery. that you assert "its not because of atheism" then what cause do you propose?

"how come they are evil" who are you atheist to make the judgment when you have no belief? on what foundation do you assert evil? from your own "godhood"?

if atheism is true. wouldnt that just make us products of some kind of random naturalistic process? .............accidents? of what value is that sort of creature?

but if i understand you correctly you dont even address origins but will assert "atheist" where is the reasoning?

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Mar 20 2021 07:50am
Quote (TiStuff @ 19 Mar 2021 22:08)
fair enough, i could have chosen a better word.

if your an atheist but you offer no explanations you should not have started an argument if you cant/wont even attempt to back it up. I don't think i brought up scripture you did, do you want to talk about scripture?

what grammar police bit?

the assertion "no god" by necessity is a claim to some kind of omni knowledge, therefore "godhood" or perhaps your are an atheist by whim? If you are an atheist by whim you have no argument and should not have started one.

i already provided a list of atheist nations and the resulting misery. that you assert "its not because of atheism" then what cause do you propose?

"how come they are evil" who are you atheist to make the judgment when you have no belief? on what foundation do you assert evil? from your own "godhood"?

if atheism is true. wouldn't that just make us products of some kind of random naturalistic process? .............accidents? of what value is that sort of creature?

but if i understand you correctly you don't even address origins but will assert "atheist" where is the reasoning?


There is so much to comment on that I'm going to have to pick and choose but don't mistake my lack of response on specific points as concession, I simply don't have unlimited time to argue with you.

Your list you are now claiming is "atheist nations" is outright absurd. I'm not going to discuss them all but I will touch on Nazi Germany (which was almost entirely composed of protestants and Catholics during world war II) You said "you assert "its not because of atheism" then what cause do you propose?" are you seriously trying to claim that the cause of world war II was atheism? I would strongly recommend you read more if that's the case.

your statement "the assertion "no god" by necessity is a claim to some kind of omni knowledge" is the epitome of a straw man argument. there are over 4000 religions in the world almost all are based on iron age books riddled with lack of scientific understanding. but fine if you want to split hairs I will concede that technically I would have to call myself a teapot agnostic. I don't "believe" with absolute certainty that there is no possibility of god - but based on the evidence I've seen, I think a specific human shaped omnipotent being that created 14 billion years of time and space and matter, so that he could watch primordial goo evolve on 1 tiny rock for millions of years until it eventually evolved into his image is about as likely as the rings on Saturn being caused by a giant teapot orbiting the planet at absurd speeds. now. I've never been to Saturn or personally witnessed the cause of it's rings, I cant say with absolute certainty that is not what causes the rings, but I'm not holding my breathe.

This assertion that you cant understand morality without god makes me sick. If I were to see a child chase a ball into traffic I wouldn't stand there devoid of feeling doing nothing because there's no god (the idea that the only reason you would attempt to in help that situation is because it aligns with god's will greatly concerns me). Also, with this only god gives you morals absurdity, why do people in other parts of the world who have differently religions (which I'm going to go ahead and assume you refute) do things out of morality? Or are you claiming that ONLY people of your specific religion have morality and the entire rest of the world are anarchists?

as for this:
if atheism is true. wouldnt that just make us products of some kind of random naturalistic process? .............accidents? of what value is that sort of creature?

It would be FAR more valuable than an all knowing all mighty all powerful being that creates infants with horrible diseases when he doesn't need to, lets them die excruciating deaths (and before finding his particular religion which dooms their "soul" to not go to "heaven" for eternity) when their crime is what? being born in a developing part of the world?

as for addressing origins, I'm not nearly qualified enough to assume I can answer the question of origins (currently the entire global scientific community hasn't answered that question...) but from what I've read they currently say the causality of the big bang (which seems to be omitted from your old book?) is unknown at this time.

explaining origins with "god's just always been around and invented everything and nothing had to invent him" seems no different than saying "the stuff that caused the big bang was just always around and nothing had to create it" it's a cop out pseudo answer that explains nothing. just because there are things we cant explain doesn't mean the point goes to the first person to yell out an answer...





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Mar 20 2021 07:53am
Quote (memoorhouse @ Mar 20 2021 06:50am)
There is so much to comment on that I'm going to have to pick and choose but don't mistake my lack of response on specific points as concession, I simply don't have unlimited time to argue with you.

Your list you are now claiming is "atheist nations" is outright absurd. I'm not going to discuss them all but I will touch on Nazi Germany (which was almost entirely composed of protestants and Catholics during world war II) You said "you assert "its not because of atheism" then what cause do you propose?" are you seriously trying to claim that the cause of world war II was atheism? I would strongly recommend you read more if that's the case.

your statement "the assertion "no god" by necessity is a claim to some kind of omni knowledge" is the epitome of a straw man argument. there are over 4000 religions in the world almost all are based on iron age books riddled with lack of scientific understanding. but fine if you want to split hairs I will concede that technically I would have to call myself a teapot agnostic. I don't "believe" with absolute certainty that there is no possibility of god - but based on the evidence I've seen, I think a specific human shaped omnipotent being that created 14 billion years of time and space and matter, so that he could watch primordial goo evolve on 1 tiny rock for millions of years until it eventually evolved into his image is about as likely as the rings on Saturn being caused by a giant teapot orbiting the planet at absurd speeds. now. I've never been to Saturn or personally witnessed the cause of it's rings, I cant say with absolute certainty that is not what causes the rings, but I'm not holding my breathe.

This assertion that you cant understand morality without god makes me sick. If I were to see a child chase a ball into traffic I wouldn't stand there devoid of feeling doing nothing because there's no god (the idea that the only reason you would attempt to in help that situation is because it aligns with god's will greatly concerns me). Also, with this only god gives you morals absurdity, why do people in other parts of the world who have differently religions (which I'm going to go ahead and assume you refute) do things out of morality? Or are you claiming that ONLY people of your specific religion have morality and the entire rest of the world are anarchists?

as for this:
if atheism is true. wouldnt that just make us products of some kind of random naturalistic process? .............accidents? of what value is that sort of creature?

It would be FAR more valuable than an all knowing all mighty all powerful being that creates infants with horrible diseases when he doesn't need to, lets them die excruciating deaths (and before finding his particular religion which dooms their "soul" to not go to "heaven" for eternity) when their crime is what? being born in a developing part of the world?

as for addressing origins, I'm not nearly qualified enough to assume I can answer the question of origins (currently the entire global scientific community hasn't answered that question...) but from what I've read they currently say the causality of the big bang (which seems to be omitted from your old book?) is unknown at this time.

explaining origins with "god's just always been around and invented everything and nothing had to invent him" seems no different than saying "the stuff that caused the big bang was just always around and nothing had to create it" it's a cop out pseudo answer that explains nothing. just because there are things we cant explain doesn't mean the point goes to the first person to yell out an answer...


"There is so much to comment on that I'm going to have to pick and choose but don't mistake my lack of response on specific points as concession, I simply don't have unlimited time to argue with you."
(then you write a wall of text, sheese i will try to remember to read it later.)
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