fish lives matter

there's plenty on the subject indeed - enough for you to realise your conclusion that fish definitely don't feel pain is at least not supported by an overwhelming scientific consensus. from what i can gather the majority of studies actually seems to suggest the opposite, but that doesn't mean i'd claim it's settled.

you made some rather definitive statements like 'fish don't feel pain, and the fact that some devour spiky animals proves that' / 'most catch and release anglers use barbless hooks' / 'most studies support the no pain assumption' that certainly require some form of evidence to be taken seriously - because they are definitely not easily identifiable truths, statements that can stand on their own just based on common sense and knowledge.

it's really up to you if you want to make this into a petty personal squabble and complain about my tone, or rather focus on the issue and provide the evidence needed to support your arguments (and by that i don't mean cherry picking examples to prove that some studies suggest fish don't register pain - i'm well aware of that - but data supporting your statistical claims concerning majorities).
on the barbed hook thing, for example, i'm completely agnostic - if that's true or not i couldn't even begin to guess, so why not just tell me where you got that from? and if it turns out that indeed a solid majority of scientific studies supports your position, i'd certainly overthink and adjust my view - all i'm saying is that from cursory research that simply doesn't seem to be the case.

Not worth the effort, read the study i posted, no one has proven in any way that fish can feel pain, thats all there is to it, barbless hooks are pretty much the standard for catch and release fishermen here in aus because its easier to release and means you do not have to remove the fish from the water.
I have fished all my life, competitively and amateur and i have enough experience to know if fish feel anything its nothing similar to what we do.
You can catch a fish 6 times in one day if you fish the same pond, generally if you have 6 holes in your mouth the last thing on your mind is eating if you can in fact feel pain.
The studies shown that claim to show fish feel pain have been done on people who feel nothing from the waist down and had the same results.

if changing the mind of someone who repeatedly expressed they have no ill will towards you, and signaled to being open to good scientific and statistical arguments, about something you're clearly passionate about, is not worth the effort, i don't know what is.
it's a line regularly used by people who simply don't have the facts to back up their previous claims - that's all i can say definitively about it, and simply draw my own conclusions from you not willing to provide any statistical evidence to support your claims, while not hesitating to type up anecdotes instead.

Literally posted a study that covered the main 6 points pain supporters claim and debunked all of them.

you linked ONE article and act like it ended the scientific controversy on this topic by definitively debunking opposing arguments, and thus lead to a consensus. that's not at all correct though, it's a controversially debated article that some support, but many more experts consider flawed in its reasoning of core points: https://researchers.mq.edu.au/en/publications/fish-pain-an-inconvenient-truth-commentary-ii-on-key-on-ifish-pai - so pretty much the opposite of what you claimed. recent legislation in some major countries also seems to support that.

to be fair, i understand why someone who likes to catch fish only to throw them back afterwards does not WANT to believe or learn that it's cruel and inflicts harm, and rather focuses on anecdotes of catching the same fish multiple times to convince themselves it couldn't possibly be so bad if the fish didn't even go to the fish hospital or move to another pond after getting their mouth pierced or ripped open the first time - but that should ideally not lead to the complete denial and dismissal of opposing science and findings.

for example, i'm also not particularly keen on hearing how mountain biking can damage the forest floor, exposing it to erosion, or how it can disturb and even drive away animals from their lairs and feeding places - but that doesn't mean i tell myself it simply isn't true...

You do know there is a difference between going to a fish hospital and actively feeding right?
Fish can be stressed out of feeding by a multitude of things, pain is not one of them.

This post was edited by Plaguefear on Dec 27 2020 10:48pm

the article you linked has not at all debunked the arguments in favour of fish feeling pain. while a few experts agree with it, a majority criticised its reasoning and don't - so acting like it did is misleading.

multiple peer reviewed studies document that fish DO change behaviour based on pain stimuli, resulting in decreased feeding attempts, avoidance, prolonged physiological responses... i'd rely on those findings over the chad fish anecdotes.



This post was edited by fender on Dec 27 2020 11:42pm

In the same way a paraplegic reacts to the same stimuli, discussing with you is pointless.