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Jul 28 2020 05:32pm
Quote (excellence @ Jul 28 2020 03:55pm)
you can do all these things without being a member of the landed gentry

golf is a little expensive at first and opera maybe start with the old youtube to get a taste

and yes putting in numerous hours of labor can be inefficient. unfortunately most of out ancestors didnt do it way back when and get lucky with accumulating so much wealth so we continue to toil for the spoils while the rest sail into clear seas with nothing to worry about



That's not actually what happened. What separates those with family wealth great enough to never labor and those who toil for them is the ability to commit violence without conscience.
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Jul 28 2020 05:59pm
Quote (inkanddagger @ 28 Jul 2020 19:32)
That's not actually what happened. What separates those with family wealth great enough to never labor and those who toil for them is the ability to commit violence without conscience.


as if this trait is exclusive to those who inherit enough wealth to never work. i doubt stalin and hitler were descendants of landed gentry. ironically mao was born into decent wealth, but he went to work (starving and killing tens of millions of his own people as his full-time gig, dubbed “the great leap forward”)
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Jul 28 2020 06:27pm
Quote (inkanddagger @ Jul 28 2020 06:45pm)

But to address the point, minimum wage should be well over $20. That's a mere $41k before taxes, rents, etc. It still leaves barely enough, but it's enough to allow single income homes to exist again. That's something I've always been confused about when it comes to the Republican socioeconomic agenda. Rightists claim they pine for the era of the single-earner nuclear family, where a parent could be home with the children and take care of the household while the other utilizes their high school or lower education to ensure their family is fed, clothed, provided with healthcare, and allowed to purchase modern amenities. But the social values of close communities and even closer families is unachievable under a cut-throat capitalist system that forces wages down through inflation and siphons wealth out of society while providing only a very few of the wealthiest individuals with the ability to invest their time and resources into their children and family units. A Democratic economic plan and Republican social agenda are compatible, whereas the Republican economic agenda and the Democratic social agenda of "do as you will" seem to align better. The mixed messaging and preferences of this binary system is a bit like a hamster wheel. Revolution is only possible inside the cage.


It's interesting to note that cultural homogeneity is linked to union membership and other indicators of class & social solidarity. I'm not sure what we're supposed to do with that, but it makes the traditional American right and left somewhat schizophrenic from a policy point of view.

If wealth is being siphoned out of society, where is it going?
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Jul 28 2020 07:19pm
Quote (excellence @ Jul 28 2020 04:59pm)
as if this trait is exclusive to those who inherit enough wealth to never work. i doubt stalin and hitler were descendants of landed gentry. ironically mao was born into decent wealth, but he went to work (starving and killing tens of millions of his own people as his full-time gig, dubbed “the great leap forward”)



You aren’t contesting what I said in the least. Those who gain and maintain power are those who are willing to commit large scale acts of violence and oppression against others.
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Jul 28 2020 07:21pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Jul 28 2020 05:27pm)
It's interesting to note that cultural homogeneity is linked to union membership and other indicators of class & social solidarity. I'm not sure what we're supposed to do with that, but it makes the traditional American right and left somewhat schizophrenic from a policy point of view.

If wealth is being siphoned out of society, where is it going?


The Caymans, George Soros’ bank account, etc.
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Jul 28 2020 07:29pm
Quote (inkanddagger @ 28 Jul 2020 21:19)
You aren’t contesting what I said in the least. Those who gain and maintain power are those who are willing to commit large scale acts of violence and oppression against others.

in the sense that money is power, sure. then again the last middle-class President we had waged quite a bit of violence and oppression against others. but the Presidency is backed by the full faith and credit of the US, which is a lot of (borrowed) money so that still makes sense. not sure we disagree there, just you made it out seem that only and all people who have a lot of family money passed down are willing to commit wanton violence, which is a pretty bold statement.
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Jul 28 2020 07:49pm
Quote (excellence @ Jul 28 2020 06:29pm)
in the sense that money is power, sure. then again the last middle-class President we had waged quite a bit of violence and oppression against others. but the Presidency is backed by the full faith and credit of the US, which is a lot of (borrowed) money so that still makes sense. not sure we disagree there, just you made it out seem that only and all people who have a lot of family money passed down are willing to commit wanton violence, which is a pretty bold statement.



They don't even have to be willing. They just have to have no empathy or concern for it when it happens out of their sight. Willingness is good for those who want to climb to power, of course, but it's not a prerequisite to benefitting from slavery and violence. The most docile wealthy are still inextricably linked to a system of class warfare and violence.
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Jul 28 2020 08:20pm
Quote (Santara @ Jul 28 2020 01:20pm)
*stimulus debate thread*

Apparently, we don't do 'discussion' anymore.


Have we ever?
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Aug 5 2020 12:08pm
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/05/politics/congress-stimulus-negotiations/index.html

Looks like we're finally seeing some movement.

Trump really wants more stimulus and unemployment. He knows this would be a crowd pleaser for the upcoming election.

The white house is also pushing to extend the eviction moratorium until December, a.k.a. until right after the election.

Pelosi is sticking firm to the original $600 unemployment

Additionally the Democrats have been pushing for a cash infusion for the post office. The post office has been banned from offering new services that compete with existing carriers, required to fund it's retirement and healthcare plan decades into the future (despite being totally self-funded), and has been kneecapped by the current postmaster general slowing down service. This is an obvious case of the post office being sabotaged and then used as a talking point for government failure, so it's probably prudent to bail them out. The post office is an absolute necessity since there's a lot of rural areas that need mail that UPS and Fedex won't deliver to.



On the student loan front
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2020/08/04/stimulus-package-student-loans/#508e5db873a0

The HEALS act now contains a provision to allow student loans to be repaid at a rate of 10% of the discretionary money of the individual for 20 or 25 years. This is a very reasonable and generous revamp to the student loan repayment program that I am all for, but not holding my breathe for it to pass.
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Aug 5 2020 01:18pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Aug 5 2020 01:08pm)
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/05/politics/congress-stimulus-negotiations/index.html

Looks like we're finally seeing some movement.

Trump really wants more stimulus and unemployment. He knows this would be a crowd pleaser for the upcoming election.

The white house is also pushing to extend the eviction moratorium until December, a.k.a. until right after the election.

Pelosi is sticking firm to the original $600 unemployment

Additionally the Democrats have been pushing for a cash infusion for the post office. The post office has been banned from offering new services that compete with existing carriers, required to fund it's retirement and healthcare plan decades into the future (despite being totally self-funded), and has been kneecapped by the current postmaster general slowing down service. This is an obvious case of the post office being sabotaged and then used as a talking point for government failure, so it's probably prudent to bail them out. The post office is an absolute necessity since there's a lot of rural areas that need mail that UPS and Fedex won't deliver to.



On the student loan front
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2020/08/04/stimulus-package-student-loans/#508e5db873a0

The HEALS act now contains a provision to allow student loans to be repaid at a rate of 10% of the discretionary money of the individual for 20 or 25 years. This is a very reasonable and generous revamp to the student loan repayment program that I am all for, but not holding my breathe for it to pass.


wonder how they'll calculate discretionary income. for example; do I NEED to spend $750 a month on groceries or will there be a cap? do I NEED to spend $500 a month on heat to keep my home/apartment at 75 degrees permanently? etc
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