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Jul 5 2020 04:13pm
Quote (GLYC123 @ Jul 5 2020 06:08pm)
Yeah definitely. It seems to be a small crawl. Nobody would be pro-losing all their rights. It's presented as a guise, and it spreads from one group to another eventually giving total government control over it's people.


Also we don't need to dig too deep to understand that almost every country's doing business with The World Bank

you know what they say: ''Working for a World Free of Poverty'' when one organization have control over funds well you know what direction it's taking

i bleive im only living in the era where information can be shared easily, people can see the problem but I dont think im in the era where people will stand against this kind of extremists
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Jul 5 2020 04:16pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Jul 5 2020 05:10pm)
The bolded.


It seems to be Karl Marx, and then that ideology is borrowed and spread.

I'm sure communism is going to vary in certain aspects from Government to Government but the ideology of the Government having total economic control and spreading/sharing the benefits to citizens stays the same.
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Jul 5 2020 04:18pm
Quote (GLYC123 @ Jul 5 2020 03:16pm)
It seems to be Karl Marx, and then that ideology is borrowed and spread.

I'm sure communism is going to vary in certain aspects from Government to Government but the ideology of the Government having total economic control and spreading/sharing the benefits to citizens stays the same.


Interesting. From Karl Marx's works, where do you feel he espoused the bolded?
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Jul 5 2020 04:22pm
Quote (mike_litoris @ Jul 5 2020 05:13pm)
Also we don't need to dig too deep to understand that almost every country's doing business with The World Bank

you know what they say: ''Working for a World Free of Poverty'' when one organization have control over funds well you know what direction it's taking

i bleive im only living in the era where information can be shared easily, people can see the problem but I dont think im in the era where people will stand against this kind of extremists


I don't even know if people can see the problem.

Our society has limited attention spans. I mean how many people base their votes for elections off just what someone else said they voted for, off only reading the headline of a news story, or an advertisement?

We seem to be a pretty lazy society with poor attention span. Lol.

I mean, we already have major news sources that are regularly pushing out falsehoods, and many of us can see through it. But there's a lot of people that just can't as well.
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Jul 5 2020 04:25pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Jul 5 2020 05:18pm)
Interesting. From Karl Marx's works, where do you feel he espoused the bolded?


"Karl Marx, a German philosopher and economist, is considered the father of Communism. Marx collaborated with Friedrich Engels to propose a new ideology in which the state owns major resources and everyone shares the benefits of labor. In The Communist Manifesto, Marx and Engel called for a working-class revolt against capitalism. Their motto, “Workers of the world, unite!” became a rallying cry among disgruntled working class across Europe"

https://www.history.com/news/socialism-communism-differences
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Jul 5 2020 05:00pm
Quote (GLYC123 @ Jul 5 2020 03:25pm)
"Karl Marx, a German philosopher and economist, is considered the father of Communism. Marx collaborated with Friedrich Engels to propose a new ideology in which the state owns major resources and everyone shares the benefits of labor.In The Communist Manifesto, Marx and Engel called for a working-class revolt against capitalism. Their motto, “Workers of the world, unite!” became a rallying cry among disgruntled working class across Europe"

https://www.history.com/news/socialism-communism-differences


My original question though was with respect to Marx's actual words, not the interpretation of History.com, China, or Venezuela. I'd argue that people primarily opposed to Communism aren't opposed as a response to Communist/Marxist thought itself, but are instead opposed to the very many precarious and questionable interpretations or co-opting of "Communism". Merely because China utilizes the word "Communism" does not mean that it is therefore Communist. If indeed Communism is a theoretical model by which a society can exist, then all labels (whether they be self-attributed or attributed by others) becomes irrelevant. The only way to assess whether any given country or society is Communist is not by name, but by examining the society itself, and both its structure and functioning. It is similar to how North Korea refers to itself as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, but despite using both the words "Democratic" and "Republic", you won't find any reasonable person trying to argue that North Korea is a democracy or a republic, and that therefore democracy and republicanism are inherently bad. Yet, Communist thought is, for a myriad of reasons, not afforded this same nuanced take.

In order to do such a nuanced take, we would have to look at Marx's own words and original ideas, as this provides the foundation upon which we can examine a society's adherence and application of communist thought v. being communist-in-name-only.

I've bolded a section in your post that is very interesting, and often a misconception of Marxism. Communism, as written by Marx, involves the abolition of the State/Centralized Government and Marx is heavily critical of the State in his work. Here are some direct quotes from Marx in his The Communist Manifesto:

Quote (Karl Marx)
The executive of the modern State is but a committee for managing the common affairs of the whole bourgeoisie.


Quote (Karl Marx)
Not only are they slaves of the bourgeois class, and of the bourgeois State; they are daily and hourly enslaved by the machine, by the overlooker, and, above all, by the individual bourgeois manufacturer himself.


Friedrich Engels had the following to say about the State, and attributed the sentiment to Marx:

Quote (Engels)
The interference of the state power in social relations becomes superfluous in one sphere after another, and then ceases of itself. The government of persons is replaced by the administration of things and the direction of the processes of production. The state is not "abolished", it withers away.


This is, of course, late-stage Marxism, and the only real "State" that Marx argues for is a temporary one formed by the revolution of the Proletariat during a transitional period, but that ultimately the end-game is a stateless society. When we look to places like China or Venezuela, we find that a stateless society is not a prevailing goal or structure. In fact, preservation of a centralized government, by use of military force, is of grave concern to these governments. We find, as Marx pointed out, that the "State" in those society's is precisely a tool used by the Bourgeoisie.
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Jul 5 2020 05:12pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jul 5 2020 04:54pm)
Fascism inherently incites violence. It's built into the ideology. Yet it is allowed to march.


Quoted for truth
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Jul 5 2020 06:02pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Jul 5 2020 06:18pm)
Interesting. From Karl Marx's works, where do you feel he espoused the bolded?


Humans are tribal by nature. The only way to ensure adherence to the rules of Marxist society is to employ fascist overlords. Otherwise people would just defect and move to better countries.
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Jul 5 2020 06:23pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Jul 5 2020 07:02pm)
Humans are tribal by nature. The only way to ensure adherence to the rules of Marxist society is to employ fascist overlords. Otherwise people would just defect and move to better countries.


Well we know people from America don't just defect and move to better countries. They stay here because they know we have it damn well better than anywhere else.
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Jul 5 2020 06:23pm
Here's a tweet from the leader of NFAC trying to make some Hitler reference in support of his group. Lol.

https://twitter.com/TheOfficialGra3/status/1276982105726160897?s=20

This post was edited by GLYC123 on Jul 5 2020 06:26pm
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