I would vote Ron paul over Biden.

If Trump is so horrible, then any ordinary Democratic candidate running on a sane agenda should wipe the floor with him. Instead, the Democratic primary was a freakshow full of extremist ideas - and in the end, the 77-year old guy who ran an atrocious campaign and clearly is nothing but a shell of his former self still won.

Throughout Trump's whole presidency, his disapproval rating has consistently been above 50%. A majority of the country agrees with you that Trump is not handling things well. If the Democrats are unable to translate this already existing anti-Trump majority into a winning coalition for themselves, then that's on them, not Trump!





Sorry, but I really really REALLY doubt that. I would strongly assume that webforums in 2003 and early 2004 were full of similar-sounding posts: "omg, if Bush wins reelection, this country really is beyond redemption". Four years later, Obama won a landslide. It will be the same story if Trump wins reelection: a blue wave in 2022 and 2024.

By "none of us" I was meaning on this forum. Clearly there's always going to be nutjobs who say "if my guy doesn't win I'll move to Canada". And that's true on all sides in a country of 300+ million

Campaigns always bring out the most extreme ideas in a party for the primary. Same on the left and the right. Keep downplaying the expectations from Biden.

If the Democrats can't translate the state of things into a win that's on the American people. It will genuinely show that they aren't competent enough to make a good decision IMO. It will be a great argument for turning the electoral college into what the founders actually intended it to be, something to separate the general public from the presidential election.

This is your personal opinion, not a fact. It's really quite bold of you to deny half the country a minimal competency and the maturity for democracy itself, all based on a disagreement over a judgement/values call like this one. ("Do you think that executive competence or the right ideology is more important?")

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on May 3 2020 04:16pm

it’s always the same few pale pasty privileged lefty non-contributors to society spouting off like this. they are just voyeurs who like to watch people and get off on talking about how “deplorable people beyond redemption” should act

I've never had a problem with saying that kind of thing about the general public. The old line "Think about how dumb the average person is, and realize half of them are dumber than that" comes to mind.

The protests during this literal pandemic have just reinforced that opinion.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on May 3 2020 04:01pm

Thor can speak for himself. But it's more like "if this guy can get elected again, our democracy has terminal cancer". It's no longer capable of functioning in any meaningfully positive way.



Why? You're assuming enough voters have some base level of standards. They probably don't.

I still really doubt that this forum's liberals, like yourself, skinned, fender, crossbones etc., would accept Trump's agenda if it was pursued by a more competent politician, say a Marco Rubio or a Josh Hawley.
Keep in mind that someone more competent at running an administration and executing an agenda would have been able to enact a lot more of this agenda than Trump was.





Democratic elections are about parties trying to convince the public of their ideas and candidates, not the other way round. By definition, if the Democrats dont convince a sufficient number of voters, that's on them, not the voters. It's not the voters' job to convince themselves that party X is the 'right' choice.



... which brings me back to my previous post: "there is an objectively defined 'right' and 'wrong' choice, and if the people repeatedly make the 'wrong' choice, then the people simply should no longer be able to decide".
Do you really not realize how elitist and undemocratic this attitude is?

Btw, at the time of the founding fathers, a vast majority of the population wasnt even able to read and write and lacked both the skills and the resources to inform themselves about politics and the world.

I mean, yeah, it's undemocratic. You think I can type "this democracy thing would have run its course" and not know it's undemocratic? Democracy is only as good as its people. Great societies like Rome changed their style of governance several times as the need arose.

At a certain point the choices are so black and white that if the majority can't see it there's a fundamental problem with allowing them to make the decision.

And at your specific use of the word "elitist", the founding fathers were insanely elitist. They enacted the electoral college specifically as a method of keeping the presidential election in the hands of the elites because they didn't think the average person could be trusted with that decision. That states allocate their electoral votes in line with their populations votes is a matter of custom, not law.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on May 3 2020 04:23pm

Oh, trust me, I'm myself an elitist snob and looking down on the intellectual capabilities of most people.

However, I would never deny anybody the right to make a decision about his or her own life and fortunes.



I think the age-old core belief of leftists is at play here: "we know better than yourself what's good for you". A ton of leftist/liberal politics comes down to the idea that the people have to be nudged and reeducated, that they must be forced to make the 'right' choice.




Like I said: think of Bush's reelection in 2004 and how liberal america thought all hope was lost at the time, only for them to recapture both chambers of Congress plus the White House over the next 4 years.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on May 3 2020 04:36pm