Quote (fender @ 3 Mar 2020 17:21)

it's so funny. people (on both sides, and from all backgrounds) act like they are in favour of things like universal healthcare, adequate wages, worker rights, environmental protection, affordable education, and against the washington establishment, against the donor class dictating policy by basically buying their president through financial contributions - but when it comes to voting, they will still support the guy who will continue with the same old ways of the oligarchs, who is completely beholden to big pharma, oil, the military industrial complex, and wall street, and who will do virtually nothing to better the lives of average americans.

why? i mean, people can't seriously be stupid enough to still fall for the empty promise of 'gradual change' (mk. 374 - this time we're suuuper cereal about it tho) by people controlled by the very corporations who oppose ANY such change - that promise has about as good of a track record as 'trickle down economics' - it NEVER works. but for some reason, ppl still buy into the bs narrative that the guy, who actually fights for the things they pretend to be in favour of, is somehow too 'radical', a 'communist', or totally unreasonable... it's really mindblowing how easily so many people are manipulated into voting against their own best interest. again and again...

at this point i think it's fair to ask if americans simply don't deserve any better. maybe they deserve to get fucked by their government, their employer, their insurance... maybe they deserve to get unhealthier, poorer, less educated, locked up, and exploited. you can only lead a horse to the water, but you can't make it drink...

Quote (fender @ Mar 3 2020 04:37pm)

that's preposterous, no you can't. universal healthcare will always be 'socialist' - just like equal opportunity education or worker protection is...

but your post is the perfect illustration of how that kind of propaganda works on people. the US government already has plenty of 'socialist' elements. massive subsidies for fossil fuel, tax breaks for the rich and corporations, bailouts for banks... just because they tend not to label those 'handouts', like they do with policies that would benefit average americans, doesn't mean it's different in nature. this whole 'socialist' vs 'capitalist' narrative just serves the fearmongering purpose - it's a core element of making people vote against their interest, and it's rather frightening how effective those labels are...

Quote (fender @ Mar 3 2020 05:21pm)

it's so funny. people (on both sides, and from all backgrounds) act like they are in favour of things like universal healthcare, adequate wages, worker rights, environmental protection, affordable education, and against the washington establishment, against the donor class dictating policy by basically buying their president through financial contributions - but when it comes to voting, they will still support the guy who will continue with the same old ways of the oligarchs, who is completely beholden to big pharma, oil, the military industrial complex, and wall street, and who will do virtually nothing to better the lives of average americans.

why? i mean, people can't seriously be stupid enough to still fall for the empty promise of 'gradual change' (mk. 374 - this time we're suuuper cereal about it tho) by people controlled by the very corporations who oppose ANY such change - that promise has about as good of a track record as 'trickle down economics' - it NEVER works. but for some reason, ppl still buy into the bs narrative that the guy, who actually fights for the things they pretend to be in favour of, is somehow too 'radical', a 'communist', or totally unreasonable... it's really mindblowing how easily so many people are manipulated into voting against their own best interest. again and again...

at this point i think it's fair to ask if americans simply don't deserve any better. maybe they deserve to get fucked by their government, their employer, their insurance... maybe they deserve to get unhealthier, poorer, less educated, locked up, and exploited. you can only lead a horse to the water, but you can't make it drink...

Quote (ThatAlex @ Mar 3 2020 06:27pm)

As a full-blown libtard, and considering that Dems will very likely not beat an incumbent with a strong economy, a part of me is rooting for as much inter-party turmoil as possible to force the DNC's hand toward the will of the people by 2024.

All this nonsense with Buttigieg and Klobuchar pulling out last second before Super Tuesday after spending the money and time campaigning in these states reeks of DNC shenanigans urging these candidates to pull out and coalesce around Biden to stop Sanders from winning the nomination.

If that is indeed the case, then I would argue that the DNC hasn't fully learned their lesson from 2016 to let the will of the people decide the direction of the party rather than stick their fingers too much in the process.

There is certainly a role for a party to decide the future of their party and their party politics, but I think that the DNC appears to be once again crossing over that gray area into be too controlling.

So, to hell with them I say. I think Democrats need to suffer another devestating defeat this November.

tl;dr: When will you learn your lesson, old man?!

Quote (ThatAlex @ Mar 3 2020 06:27pm)

As a full-blown libtard, and considering that Dems will very likely not beat an incumbent with a strong economy, a part of me is rooting for as much inter-party turmoil as possible to force the DNC's hand toward the will of the people by 2024.

All this nonsense with Buttigieg and Klobuchar pulling out last second before Super Tuesday after spending the money and time campaigning in these states reeks of DNC shenanigans urging these candidates to pull out and coalesce around Biden to stop Sanders from winning the nomination.

If that is indeed the case, then I would argue that the DNC hasn't fully learned their lesson from 2016 to let the will of the people decide the direction of the party rather than stick their fingers too much in the process.

There is certainly a role for a party to decide the future of their party and their party politics, but I think that the DNC appears to be once again crossing over that gray area into be too controlling.

So, to hell with them I say. I think Democrats need to suffer another devestating defeat this November.

tl;dr: When will you learn your lesson, old man?!

Quote (IceMage @ 4 Mar 2020 00:28)

I don't know why people insist on blaming boogeymen for everything. Whether it's George Soros, the Koch brothers, military-industrial complex, globalists, whatever.

The system we have exists because of the structure of our government and the will of voters. That's the answer to all the big questions.

If by some miracle Bernie got into office, he couldn't get universal healthcare passed even if he had 65 Democrats in the Senate and a sizable lead in the House. Not every district is AoC's.

Quote (fender @ Mar 3 2020 06:58pm)

pointing out that donors determine policy, and not voters, is not some conspiratorial 'boogeyman' theory, it's a well documented fact.

the system exists because the elites have shaped it that way, and were smart enough to divide the country to a degree where voting against your own interest just to spite the 'other' side, seems like a perfectly reasonable option for the majority of people.


the fact that bernie couldn't implement his 'crazy' ideas, which have a long history of working perfectly well in literally every one of america's peer countries (not the soviet union or venezuela), despite widespread popular support for them, just further proves that.
don't get me wrong, i don't disagree with you on the substance: establishment politicians from 'both sides' would vehemently oppose universal healthcare - but not because they thought it was impossible, too expensive, or because they had better ideas (even though those would probably be the official excuses) - they would do it because their donors make a fortune of the current system, and invested a fraction of those profits into politicians that would uphold that system.