Quote (thesnipa @ 20 Feb 2020 10:09)

Quote (thesnipa @ 20 Feb 2020 16:09)

Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Feb 20 2020 04:00pm)

Hopefully Iran will get its nukes and ICBM soon now, so US will no longer be able to destroy middle east, creating millions refugees to destabilize Europe and to please Israel Fart Right.

Don't forget who is the #1 terrorist country in the world and stick on topic.

Quote (fender @ Feb 20 2020 09:09am)

the problem with the 'these are just sick individuals, nothing we can do about it' narrative is that we have one political side that actively fuels this hatred and bigotry - not even necessarily because their elected leaders want to directly eliminate the 'others', but because division and a more or less clearly defined bogeyman (immigrants, muslims, non-whites...) helps their goals of gaining (political) power. the rise of right wing populism and the increasing frequency of such incidents is hardly a coincidence...

that doesn't make what you said entirely wrong, fortunately only a very small percentage of people who think that way, actually act upon it, and obviously that is several degrees more fucked up than the already disgusting underlying world view, but not calling that out absolves the demagogues and the fear- and hate-mongers of their responsibility (ofc not legal, but moral), and it somewhat legitimises extremist views by suggesting 'it's not really the ideology that does the damage' (reminds me a bit of the 'guns don't kill people, people do' talking point).

and yes, in an ideal world, we would just ignore their 'legacy' which i am convinced would be effective in preventing some of the copycat terrorists, looking for similar 'fame' - but that'd still not address the underlying problem. we often talk about the very real problem of radicalisation of young muslim men through islamist propaganda - so why should we ignore the problem that far right ideology and propaganda poses in that regard? that makes no sense to me...

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 20 2020 06:51am)

Germany has stricter gun laws in place than anything the proponents of gun control in America are even dreaming of. If anything, this case proves that deranged and determined invididuals will find a way to carry out attacks even in an environment where guns are hard to come by.

Quote (fender @ 20 Feb 2020 16:09)

the problem with the 'these are just sick individuals, nothing we can do about it' narrative is that we have one political side that actively fuels this hatred and bigotry - not even necessarily because their elected leaders want to directly eliminate the 'others', but because division and a more or less clearly defined bogeyman (immigrants, muslims, non-whites...) helps their goals of gaining (political) power. the rise of right wing populism and the increasing frequency of such incidents is hardly a coincidence...

Quote

that doesn't make what you said entirely wrong, fortunately only a very small percentage of people who think that way, actually act upon it, and obviously that is several degrees more fucked up than the already disgusting underlying world view, but not calling that out absolves the demagogues and the fear- and hate-mongers of their responsibility (ofc not legal, but moral), and it somewhat legitimises extremist views by suggesting 'it's not really the ideology that does the damage' (reminds me a bit of the 'guns don't kill people, people do' talking point).

and yes, in an ideal world, we would just ignore their 'legacy' which i am convinced would be effective in preventing some of the copycat terrorists, looking for similar 'fame' - but that'd still not address the underlying problem. we often talk about the very real problem of radicalisation of young muslim men through islamist propaganda - so why should we ignore the problem that far right ideology and propaganda poses in that regard? that makes no sense to me...

Quote (Skinned @ 20 Feb 2020 16:36)

If they were happening once a week it would prove that dumbass.

Quote (thesnipa @ 20 Feb 2020 16:21)

i dont consider radicalization of young muslim men or young white men to be a world ending issue inherently. the same ratios that apply to shooters being a minority apply to radicalization. most hear it, most even who agree with it dont act on it.

these are sick people, in a flock of billions dozens will commit noteworthy acts of terror every year. the only change i see from all of human history is the media and internet especially give these people fame that otherwise they could never achieve. it started with manifestos getting printed in newspapers, and the internet made it even worse. we can try to fight radicalization, we can try to track shooters, etc. but all of those are big hills to climb compared to just not glorifying the shooters in mainstream media. if people want to go to shit teir 3rd level sources just to find the name/picture of one of these fuckbois go ahead. but cover of NYT, CNN news hour, etc. thats the problem we can combat. as New Zealand already has.

Quote (fender @ Feb 20 2020 09:50am)

i think it WILL not be a "world ending" issue because many people don't just write it off as negligible and unimportant, recognise the inherent danger of such ideologies, and fight back against fear-mongers and bigots and their ideas, so that appeasers can smugly claim 'see, it's not a big deal, only happens ever so often'...

again, i agree with you concerning the 'fame' being a factor we can and should control (cue the principled 'free speech' crowd, to which you apparently don't count yourself, rioting over this) - but mass media and the internet existed before we had the right wing demagogues rise again and awaken what i (mistakenly) hoped education and a good living standard would have largely eliminated in my country, but we did NOT see such a rise in extremist violence before...

it might not be as direct and palpable a threat as climate change (at least for people who don't actively shut off their brains for political reasons), but i am well aware what complacency regarding demagogues can do to societies - not just from decades old history, but looking at recent developments in hungary, poland, and also america. i do not want that for germany.

Quote (thesnipa @ 20 Feb 2020 16:54)

radicalization and fear of the other are at a low on a historical scale, as is violence, poverty, etc. yet we made it through the harder times, and we're looking at an uptick of a few percent as if its noteworthy compared to a higher degree of severity by an order of magnitude.

fighting radicalization and fear of the other wont happen with a hamfisted approach. we can maybe use tools like forced integration, at least to put immigrant kids in with native families to see they're ok people. but ultimately it will be as hard of a battle as feminism has with fighting natural sexual urges and sexual expression. its in us, and it's not going anywhere. internet and access to information are the new thing.

if you have some specific ideas on how to combat radicalization tho i can address those specifically. calling out a problem only is a hard thing to discuss, especially as i think its bad but largely unavoidable.