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Oct 1 2025 06:08pm
YESS let me start with saying that i really appreciate you for discussing the topic with this level of detail! Love it! đź’›

Dont want to scare you off, so let me preface the debate/discussion with this—
Im told that, for believers, debating the existence of god is like debating your mother’s worth. So this is surely a sensitive topic, as it probably feels like im attacking your loved one. I dont mean any ill will though! And im completely open to being persuaded. Okay, let’s debate!

1) Re the problem of evil, it sounds like youre going for the free will defense. The free will defense by itself doesnt defend well against itself doesnt the problem of evils (eg suffering) caused by natural disasters), since these occur even without human intervention (even though humans definitely worsen the frequency and severity of these), so im glad you brought up natural disasters. To the Christian position that natural disasters are the outcome of a disordered state of nature from the fall, i would ask why an all-powerful god wouldnt “fix” this state of nature (ie, correct it from disordered to its previously ordered state)? After all, wouldnt “correcting” the disordered state of nature would stop natural disasters from causing needless suffering? And shouldnt this be within the ability of an all-powerful god?

2) Could you briefly explain in what ways god reveals itself to us? Humans have hundreds of religions (or more), and many are mutually exclusive. If god revealed itself to us sufficiently, there should be a clear religion for everyone to follow. Which religion is it? How do we know that’s the true religion?

3) what is your definition of omnipotence? The definition of omnipotence needed for this argument requires it to include 1) the ability to create anything and 2) physical strength. Im curious about the definition you have in mind when discussing omnipotence in a creator. Does your definition exclude the ability to create anything, or does it exclude physical strength?

4) Regardless of the intention, eternal damnation is still eternal suffering. Why would any all-just god allow infinite suffering for finite mistakes in choices or actions? You talk about hell as if it’s some unavoidable state of nature, but wouldnt an all-powerful god have the power to change this? Or is this another disagreement over my definition of omnipotence ?

1) I simply reject your definition "problem of evils (eg suffering)". Suffering is not identical to evil. You might suffer from doing something good e.g. diving in front of a bullet to save a loved one is a sacrifice on your part which entails suffering, but it is not an act of evil. suffering is your response to an act, in itself it is not identical good or bad necessarily.

God does have a plan to fix things like natural disasters, tragedies etc, and it is detailed in the Christian theology as the kingdom coming to Earth and realigning as it was in the garden. Your question seems to be 'why is it not that way now?' and ultimately the theological answer is humanity freely chose to depart from God and the consequence of sin is death. God is the sustainer of life, goodness, etc, and the further you are from that you suffer the consequences as a natural outcome. But in Christian theology, it will not always be this way.

2) God reveals himself in every act of nature, most clearly in Christian theology in the incarnation. You could make the argument of the orderliness of nature is evidence of an orderly designer like the argument from fine tuning would give, but that's not my favorite argument. I think the strongest and most coherent argument for the Christian worldview is TAG.

3) My definition of omnipotence is the ability or power to do anything possible. It doesn't exclude what you listed. When you ask the question 'can God make a rock so heavy he cannot lift it?" this is an incoherent statement, not some type of defeater. This is a linguistic problem of incoherence, though you may believe you structured your question in a valid form, it's a category error.

It would be no different to ask 'Can God make a square circle?' Again, this is incoherent, it is simply not possible in any world as it is a contradiction.

4) I don't understand your issue, God allows us to freely choose to align with him or not. It is not some punishment in the way you are describing, it is the consequence of your choice to be distant from God. God does have the power to 'change' this, and that's exactly what he did on the cross was defeat death. Salvation isn't an on/off switch, it is a constant act to align with God through his Grace understood as theosis. You are constantly making decisions to aligning with the good, and the Word elevated humanity or the human nature to the divine by glorifying his nature.
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Oct 1 2025 06:18pm
We all have a choice to choose the right path, but where’s the choice when we’re talking about evils (eg suffering) caused by natural disasters? Humans worsen the frequency and severity of natural disasters, but natural disasters occur regardless

Is your stance that all evil and suffering should be viewed as a positive thing simply because it means we’re fortunate enough to be devastated? Surely we shouldnt be thankful that an innocent child could be injured and starving to death by themselves, right? Likewise for cancer patients dying in pain, or SA victims reliving their trauma


Humans worsen or ameliorate the frequency and severity of natural disasters. When was the last time a swarm of locusts caused millions of people to starve? That was the norm for the history of civilization and we ended it. We learned how to make it rain and we use this technology every year all over the world to prevent massive droughts.

Every singular instance of evil is preventable. This is what good people strive for, it's the meaning of good. Evil itself is impossible to extinguish without extinguishing existence, just like electromagnetism.
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Oct 1 2025 06:46pm
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Oct 1 2025 07:51pm
Having a God inspires hope.
That sort of self talk that shines through when we're going through hard times that tells us we'll get through this. When you have no one to rely on and truly alone in a crisis. If you extend that outward to imagine that if we all felt as though bad things do happen but we believe the best way to prevent it from happening again is to live each day by multiplying the good in our lives to stave away the bad that you know can happen at anytime. Life can suck, so why make it worse for yourself or others.

That buzzing feeling you get when you witness injustice or suffering. You know it could only be prevented by a powerful enough resistance to ever allow it to happen.

Because in the end, we might be just be super complicated cells cooked up on a rock under ideal conditions, who can believe that we have no effect on the future that could be taken away from us at any moment.

Or, we could say let's strive for a better world today and tomorrow, and be grateful that we born under such ideal conditions that really anything we imagine is possible.

/edit might be some typos and shit

This post was edited by WastedPenguinz on Oct 1 2025 07:52pm
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Oct 1 2025 08:29pm
God doesn't exist
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Oct 1 2025 08:36pm
God doesn't exist


How did life begin?
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Oct 1 2025 09:14pm
God is a Black Woman
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Oct 2 2025 03:25am
God is a Black Woman


Netflix Adaption.
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Oct 2 2025 07:58am
Netflix Adaption.


:rofl:
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Oct 2 2025 08:55am
:rofl:


Netflix Adaption

The Tragic Story of a Hero - George Floyd


Starring


Ryan Gosling as George Floyd
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