Quote (Handcuffs @ 15 Feb 2024 00:30)

Yeah, it's rough, rates of substance use treatment success are pretty universally grim but I remain optimistic that we'll continue to get better at it, and every life saved and family system changed is worth it. Heart goes out to you and the people you've lost.

I would hear similar answers as to why people injected, particularly that it gives a longer, stronger, and more stable high like you said. I think some people would still slam it, but much, much less than people do now. We'd also need to change various laws between what we have now and the kind of legal access that you and I believe in. We're in the minority, so our vision is unlikely to happen, but right now there are some whacky unintended consequences from these kinds of harm reduction practices and the laws we have. For instance, when I was in New Mexico, you couldn't get in legal trouble if you were found with needles (so long as there wasn't substance inside of them) but the condition was that you had to either be on your way to or from a harm reduction/needle exchange site (We'd typically encourage people to just say that they were if they ever got stopped); however, since pipes are federally recognized as drug paraphernalia and aren't typically part of these programs, people could get in trouble with the law if they had a pipe on them. So, in a way, people were incentivized to use via needles rather than by pipe as an unintended consequence.

Quote (InsaneBobb @ Feb 14 2024 11:34pm)

Use alcohol? That's a drug. Drink coffee or tea? Caffeine's a drug. Smoke or vape? Drugs. Pot's a drug ofc. Ever needed painkillers? Drugs. Ever had stitches? That topical is a drug.

People use drugs all the time. The arbitrary nature of determining who can use what is purely anti-liberty, and is the root cause of a majority of the issues.

The guy who throws out his back stocking shelves at Walmart and is now in pain for the rest of his life doesn't want to become a heroine junkie, he just wants the pain to stop so he can be productive. But oh no, the painkiller prescriptions stopped. Holy shit, gotta get those painkillers somehow. He knows! He can go buy some off the street. Looks perfect, guy he buys it from SAYS it's prescription. Nope! Counterfit, full of fentanyl, now he's dead. Oops.

You likely know more people who regularly use drugs than don't. Ibuprofin to combat inflammation? Drug. Antihistamines for allergies? Drug. The base idea that, "Well THOSE drugs are DIFFERENT" is stupid. ADHD treatments are just amphetamines being mass delivered to children. But that's "okay because they need it!" Really?

Feel free to attack me personally over my stance that you won't stop people from doing drugs short of executing them (like Singapore), and if you value liberty in any way, shape, or form, then other people's drug use is none of your business whatsoever. That's fine. I'm not seeking to use illegal drugs. I just don't think drugs should be illegal at all, nor do I think any drug should require a doctor for "permission" to use. If somebody becomes an addict and destroys their own life, that's their problem. All drug wars accomplish is to remove the abililty to obtain safe, cheap, and effective drugs legally, while creating a class of criminals who've committed no harm to others.

Quote (Handcuffs @ Feb 15 2024 12:28am)

Dead people don't get sober. The safe injection sites are more than just to prevent rates of lethal overdose, but to also reduce the incidence rates of transmissible infections (Hep C in particular) and abscesses/necrosis.

And given that major drug trades are the result of it being illegally brought in by other countries (Cartels of the South, China, etc), why would you abandon your fellow citizens who are victims of geopolitical efforts to destabilize your country?

Quote (duffman316 @ 15 Feb 2024 10:34)

If drug addicts weren't a danger to others this topic wouldn't really be a conversation. It isn't just their life that they destroy.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/two-year-old-taken-to-cheo-after-being-found-with-syringe-in-her-mouth-at-playground

Quote (InsaneBobb @ Feb 14 2024 08:34pm)

Use alcohol? That's a drug. Drink coffee or tea? Caffeine's a drug. Smoke or vape? Drugs. Pot's a drug ofc. Ever needed painkillers? Drugs. Ever had stitches? That topical is a drug.

People use drugs all the time. The arbitrary nature of determining who can use what is purely anti-liberty, and is the root cause of a majority of the issues.

The guy who throws out his back stocking shelves at Walmart and is now in pain for the rest of his life doesn't want to become a heroine junkie, he just wants the pain to stop so he can be productive. But oh no, the painkiller prescriptions stopped. Holy shit, gotta get those painkillers somehow. He knows! He can go buy some off the street. Looks perfect, guy he buys it from SAYS it's prescription. Nope! Counterfit, full of fentanyl, now he's dead. Oops.

Quote (ChocolateCoveredGummyBears @ 15 Feb 2024 11:19)

from my experience, people are supposed to go the doctors and get a prescription for pain and they'll prescribe the painkiller meds.

they are not supposed to go out and get drugs off the street for it. lol if they are doing that, they are just adding to the drug lord trade/economy and should be ashamed of themselves. also kinda dangerous

Quote (InsaneBobb @ Feb 15 2024 10:34am)

See, that's what I thought when I was young and naïve as well. Then I watched good friends with lifelong, terminal pain have their prescriptions yanked due to regulation changes around the so-called "Opioid Epidemic". Turns out, doctors don't really give a shit if you're in pain. When they get the eye of the government on them, suddenly it's not about helping their patients, but instead not losing their license to practice based off accusations of "over-prescribing".

Further, it's really strange how people are simply supposed to shit out money for doctors visits. Take me, for instance. I have asthma. Have since I was about 6 years old. Why on earth should I need to spend $200+ every couple years to get a prescription for an inhaler? The condition hasn't changed or gone away. Seems to me all the requirement to go to a doctor is is a tax. "You will give doctors your money, or not breath. Choose." But why? The doctors can't cure my asthma, and I don't require a doctor's input to treat it. A simple albuterol inhaler during an asthma attack fixes it.

And my point is that there should be no drug lord trade economy at all. Were we not attempting to dictate what people put in their own bodies, safe forms of pretty much every drug would be offered to adults and they could make their OWN choices of what (if any) drugs they wish to use. Be it for self-medication, or purely recreationally.

Liberty is the ultimate resolution to the drug war. Not attempting to play mommy to adults who neither want nor need some random's useless advice.

Quote (ChocolateCoveredGummyBears @ 15 Feb 2024 11:54)

sadly isn't that already the case? can get drugs relatively easily in the states already, but it's up the the person to not abuse them. can't we see already see that's not a good idea?

your point about drugs should be offered doesn't make sense, that's like saying everyone deserves a credit card. not everyone can manage their finances and would get destroyed with debt, both psychology and financially (where prescriptions can help/proper way to do it). if people can make their own choices of what drugs to use, it's not gonna end well.

exhibit a: walk downtown in any metropolitan area. Seattle if you're feeling lucky

Quote (InsaneBobb @ Feb 15 2024 12:49am)

Interesting. Do they provide reasoning behind why they would share needles? It can't be lack of education. Elementary schools were already teaching never to share needles back in the 70's. They tried to keep the discussion centered around Diabetics, rather than Druggies, but all the warnings of lethal disease transmission has been part of the most basic education ever.

Not doubting your word, it's your field. More just curious if reasoning was provided. Like, sharing doses or something?