Trump And Lawyers Think President Is Immune - Topic

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Jan 10 2024 02:48pm

Quote (Goomshill @ Jan 10 2024 03:39pm)

No even I thought he was discussing the civil war scenario
He's trying to say, what if Donald Trump ordered such assassinations, and seal team six refused to carry it out, and then all the republicans turned against him, congress moved to impeach him and he resigned "to avoid prosecution".
And then their sole concern is whether they can lock up Donald Trump the private citizen, even though in this scenario he's no longer president and has no powers and his fate is totally meaningless to the running of the country.
Which of course is absolutely nutty because even if you somehow cared what happens to Trump in this scenario, any defense by him hinges on the thin premise of a resignation nullifying impeachment and the entirety of the USA government being totally powerless to enforce their laws or change their laws as necessary despite being empowered to just change the constitution if they really cared, and of course also supposing the average John Q Citizen not just ridding us of a turbulent priest.

I cannot even begin to describe how profoundly irrelevant and pointless such a thought experiment is. Its like saying, what if Donald Trump ate a million cans of beans and inflated to the size of the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man and began erupting a gaseous cloud that smothered washington D.C. with a saving throw against instant death and nobody was able to arrest him because their manacles wouldn't fit around his corpulent wrists.

The constitutional order would still break down, as it did to some extent during the Civil War. He'd be impeached anyway, convicted, removed from office and tried for rebellion. Given that the vast majority of his own party opposed him, he'd be convicted and popular opinion would see him hanged.

Black XistenZ

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#32

Jan 10 2024 03:38pm

You're focusing on specifics of the example to dodge the actual essence of the question.

Let's take a different scenario which doesn't imply that Constitutional order has already broken down anyway: say Tiffany Trump ends up in the hospital badly battered by her violent husband, president Trump wants to see him killed. Trump asks various Secret Service agents, CIA assassins, Seal teams and so on until he actually finds someone willing to take out the husband. The House impeaches him, but in the Senate, only 64 senators vote to convinct, resulting in Trump being acquitted. Could Trump be prosecuted for murder after leaving office?

The core legal question is if presidential immunity is really all-encompassing as claimed by Trump's lawyers, or if it only applies to actions related to carrying out the constitutional duties of the office within the boundaries of the law.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jan 10 2024 03:40pm

Thor123422

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#33

Jan 10 2024 03:39pm

Quote (bogie160 @ Jan 10 2024 02:29pm)

In a situation where the President has the sway to order military units to assassinate large swathes of Congress, and public outrage is sufficiently behind him, then the Constitutional order has completely broken down and civil war is the only remedy.

I mean, in this case, what exactly is the Judiciary going to do? They have no power outside of what respect for the law and norms allows.

In that scenario the president doesn't need more than a few dozen people to do the deed. It doesn't mean the military is totally behind him or anything like that.

In this scenario under the immunity the president is wanting, he would be totally immune after the fact. The risk for failure is negligable because he can't be prosecuted afterwards. The only real risk would be that the next president does it to him, which is not how things work. We have to have an orderly system of justice for these kinds of scenarios.

Which is why it's such a batshit crazy thing to argue and nobody should take it seriously

theCrossbones

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#34

Jan 10 2024 04:53pm

Quote (Landmine @ Jan 9 2024 07:20pm)

What kind of stupid judge would ask hypothetical questions that have nothing to do with a presidents duty? Oh yeah a Joe Biden stooge that can’t even identify what a women is.

The dumb lawyer and trump think he should be immune. Durp

IroningTheMaiden

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#35

Jan 10 2024 04:56pm

Quote (Landmine @ Jan 9 2024 10:20pm)

What kind of stupid judge would ask hypothetical questions that have nothing to do with a presidents duty? Oh yeah a Joe Biden stooge that can’t even identify what a women is.

woman*

This post was edited by IroningTheMaiden on Jan 10 2024 04:59pm

TiStuff

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#36

Jan 10 2024 05:56pm

Quote (Pyrotechx @ Jan 9 2024 07:26pm)

Oh. You're one of those ones, that think the insurrection on Jan 6th was "peaceful". My bad, I didn't know you had your TV locked on Fox News and already drank all the Kool-Aid.

So peaceful :bonk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXnHIJkZZAs

OOO OO i like the first part were ray epps is breaching secured grounds nice vid

HAHAHAHA your such a chump. @1:45 "tip of the spear" that was john sullivan aka jayden x and his crowd breaching the building before the trumpers were even done with their speeches.
someday maybe you get sick of the liar crowd and view all the data.
ooOoOo speaking of liars i just posted a 'nice article about dr fraudie on the covid19 thread

theCrossbones

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#37

Jan 10 2024 06:38pm

Team trump
Advertised that
GOD MADE TRUMP like some messiah.
I’m sure PaRD will agree lmao!!

Landmine

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