So you believe not just in dualism, but that the body has compelling interests that may not overlap with the mind and can exert influence?

I do wonder about that, and whether it is a concern about not being accepted in Heaven v. how much of it is that this question throws confusion into either what Heaven is like or what Earth is life, or whether they're even real. We seem to accept that Earth is real.

And you wouldn't know if you've proved it (or even how close you are/were) until the afterlife experience happens?



It was mostly meant as a cheeky reference to many religious figures espouse that being gay is a choice / just because you feel attracted to the same sex, doesn't mean you should imbibe.

I do agree that urges (unless defined in a way I'm not thinking about atm) aren't incompatible with 'free will'.



I think that that question can't be objectively answered 100%, but I think most every single person would say "Yes" if you asked them if they felt like they existed. So, despite our inability to prove it 100%, it should probably be our working conceptualization: And so, we exist.

again this would be covered in the bible and i don't think it's particularly interesting, i don't think there's a duality or moral contradiction

if you are true believer and you think (or in that case “knows”) beyond any doubt that there is an after life and its good.
You would do anything in your power to get there.
This is the base idea behind suicide bombing or suicide attack.
In Islam they believe that if you die protecting your property you become martyr and martyrs go straight to heaven.
That is why they keep yelling allah hu akbar - (god is great) when they are doing it.
So in the end they are making a “rational” decision

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1043463119900327

This post was edited by Many_Names on Nov 29 2023 12:07am

The psyche of a suicide bomber, and the underlying social conditions that led to their existence, are very fascinating to me. I haven't given them/that idea that much thought before.

Thanks for this message, it took me some time to come back to it. I'm not terribly familiar of the details of Eastern philosophies, but the idea of there being no "life after death" and that it "is simply the continuation of consciousness/God/existence(one and the same)" is interesting to me. Is the idea that one's consciousness as we may come to experience it on Earth returns to this post-life grand consciousness upon death?

All good friend to be honest most people on this sub-forum are not Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, or Jainist so they're inclined to misinterpret "reincarnation" and "god" (not saying they are wrong but there are massive differences even between eastern philosophies)

I tried my best as someone who was raised Catholic and studied mostly Hinduism and some Buddhism for a decade to solidify somewhat how they perceive "consciousness" / "existence".

Vedanta (a sect of Hinduism) that I adhere too is supplementary to my Catholic beliefs. So by studying it extensively I've been able to strengthen my bond with Christ.

I personally think people who don't study "both sides" are ignorant. This is why the Abrahamic faiths(Judaism, Christianity, Islam) are archaic in their philosophy but steadfast in their belief/faith.

To be 100 percent honest the Bible, Quran, and Torah are rudimentary when compared to any Eastern philosophy. I was stupefied when I read and saw with my own eyes and heart how much sheer depth Eastern philosophies had.

They basically answered the question you asked in your OP with multiple answers from different sages across different times. They asked every question a human could ponder/fathom and then answered it to the best of their ability.

To answer your question it's best to state that "God" is merely all of the perceivable universe as well as the "unseen" or "unknowable". God is the fabric on which all existence exists and also the medium/frequency/vibration. All is one and all is God.

When you are born on this planet you have two parents and they give you a "name" and you carry this "name" and create an "ID/identity" which in turn fosters the growth of the Ego(separation of self from the whole). That's why when people use the term "I" you are basically stating that you are "different" from what actually is universally the same eternal perpetual existence. This is why removing the Ego is seen as one of the few ways to "realize god". Coincidentally the word "holy" person actually means to them someone who has become "whole or one again" with existence/god. In Hinduism your essentially going planet to planet life to life and go through various forms of the same consciousness just as different names/entities. But you are always what's called the "Atman" (one's eternal self/the supreme soul/god).

I always found it ironic how in the East saying "I am God" was considered normal going back 5,000 years(and still is to this day) but only when Jesus Christ made the claim did it actually stick with people. I think it's ignorant and not even historically accurate to say "Jesus was the 1st to make this claim" when Buddha lived hundreds of years before Christ and Hindus really knew what people think Jesus said was "brand new" was actually just "rebranded Eastern philosophy". The similarities are blatantly obvious to anyone whose studied both sides and if I were to make a hypothetical guess I'd say "Jesus's missing years" he wasn't wandering around in the desert he likely went to study in the East and came back truly knowing "God".

To further elaborate all beings are part of that "consciousness" and are merely fractals of the same whole. I don't believe you lose your identity/ego fully when you die because even the greatest teachers, sages, mystics, rishis all use their Ego to realize the higher truth. First you say I'm separate from everyone/everything I'm my own being and there's no "God" but then when you walk the path you eventually realize you could never be separate from "existence itself".

There are many stories of how "enlightened beings" when they come to this realization(Nirvana/Samadhi/etc.) they quite literally detach from their Ego and merge with God. When that happens most of them totally neglect their "human shell" to the point of death or self induced suicide. Their disciples, devotees, followers basically have to "pull them down" so that they "eat" "drink water" and continue to nourish their "human body".

When I experienced this for a brief moment(pure-bliss-consciousness) it was truly divine and authentic. No drugs. Deep meditation. Like so many you want to "stay there forever". Imagine you go to heaven for 10 minutes and then you come back to this ego-dense reality. It fucking sucks. That's why Buddha preached "liberation through suffering"and he didn't prioritize "reaching nirvana" like so many think. He merely tried to get people to understand the human condition itself and try to "remove suffering" through various meditative practices. He despised the fact so many just wanted to sit in "Samadhi/Enlightenment" instead of go out and do good deeds. He saw enlightenement as an "excuse" for people to say, "I am God. I am one with the universe. I know the secret. Fuck all of you I'm going to sit in a cave in total bliss" as cowardly.

I'd go further but to be honest it's better for someone like yourself to simply read some of the major tenets yourself. I'm not a scholar and I don't have photgraphic memory. All I can share with you is my own personal experience and opinion.

Glad you made this thread!!

edit: To add a little context and extrapolate you may have heard people say/claim, "I'm Jesus Christ reincarnated" or "I was such and such a person in a previous life". To any regular person they go, "This person is fucking insane". The reality though is that "language" itself is divisive and the highest truths can't be spoken only experienced. When a western person who believes in Jesus Christ says this they don't actually mean "I am that exact same being". What they are trying to say is that they have "shared experience" or "felt the presence thereof". Anyone right now can 'Put themselves on the same cross Jesus Christ was crucified on". You will feel like Jesus really did "die for our sins". You aren't experiencing "physical death" but you can put your heart and mind THERE. Jesus himself spoke of reincarnation but it was removed for obvious reasons. When people go to church and take the "body" and "blood" of Christ they obviously aren't physically eating/drinking "him" they are being spiritually connected and nourished by his spirit and all that he stood for. Jesus Christ just so happens to be one of the "great spiritual teachers" if not the "greatest" and so we all sort of feel an affinity with his being. In the East even today if you said "I am Jesus Christ reincarnated" you wouldn't be sent to a psychiatric facility you would become a monk and find out what that truly means.

This post was edited by SwamiVivekananda on Nov 30 2023 03:00pm

I find Bushido fascinating in a similar way. To live life as if you were already dead. And to be able to achieve that in people without the promise of paradise.

Underlying social conditions like believing in paradise, and how blowing yourself up gets you there?