Quote (fender @ Oct 29 2023 11:46am)
shows how entirely ignorant you are - of the specific situation and the topic in general. you can still keep full control of a person once they go limp, even keep them in a rear naked choke position if you feel threatened still, without applying the force required to actually interrupt the blood flow to their head. not only that, there were several other people who helped control that guy once our "hero" took the initiative. the notion that he would suddenly wake up, instantly gather his bearings, easily overwhelm at least three grown men, magically conjure up a knife or gun, and start killing people, is absurd.
again, i don't have a problem with him getting physical first - if the threats the other dude made were real and believable. that said, he clearly knew what he was doing. he wasn't just defending himself after being attacked and fighting for his own life (in which case i would maybe buy into the "adrenaline made me hold on for long after the guy went out" excuse) - no, he made a conscious decision and felt confident enough to engage and overwhelm the guy, which he clearly succeeded in.
Quote (fender @ Oct 30 2023 09:03am)
learn to read, you triggered psycho, i quite literally asked you a question that allowed for both possible outcomes, lol.
also, your ignorance regarding grappling and submissions is showing. which wouldn't be a problem in itself - if you didn't just base your whole evaluation of the situation on something you quite clearly don't understand.
how do you land at "self-defence" and "murderous psycho"? from how i understand the situation, it was the ex-marine who decided to enter a physical confrontation. yes, the dead guy was belligerent and uttered threats - and depending on how serious or real they seemed, depending on other aspects (like did he brandish a weapon? did he actually make threatening moves towards other people, stand up and get in their faces?), i don't even have a problem with that in general - better restrain a person and call authorities than risk them harming innocent bystanders, right?
however, like i explained in previous posts already, it is not that easy to "accidentally" kill a grown man, and not at all unreasonable to expect someone who has the confidence to attack a "murderous psycho" in the first place and the competence to choke them unconscious, to realise that the "threat" is neutralised once their body goes completely limp - especially with several other men helping you to control the guy.
what you describe as an "exact sweet spot", in order to make it appear like an expert thing to realise and therefore unreasonable to expect, in reality is a matter of actively squeezing the neck of an unconscious guy for several minutes.
in reality, after unconsciousness first come increasing degrees of brain damage (starting roughly a minute into interrupting blood flow to the brain) - and only after about five (!) minutes of actively choking their lifeless body comes death.
also, when you wake up from being choked out like that, it takes quite a while to gather your bearings - let alone the strength to magically overwhelm several grown men, one of which still has you in a hold you couldn't escape in the first place.
literally everything in your description is framed to lead to your desired conclusion and rife with ignorance and bias. no nuance, no effort to educate yourself...
did you even watch the video?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/embed/video/2933409.htmlNeely, a disgruntled man threatening women and children in an enclosed space, is still conscious and struggling+kicking to break free from restraint from multiple people until around 2:07 and is released at 2:57. that's not "five (!) minutes of actively choking their lifeless body", and Penny goes as far as to place him in a recovery position afterwards. They clearly did not intend to kill him after he was no longer an active threat.
In my opinion, the man distracting the good samaritans with warnings about legal ramifications probably prolonged the chokehold and most likely resulted in Neely's death. If he really cared, he could have attempted to physically break them up at that exact moment instead of becoming an impromptu defense attorney.