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Mar 31 2023 07:41am
Quote (Meanwhile @ Mar 31 2023 03:40pm)
Dare to have an argument regarding the topic now. And good luck.


People like you and fender =/= you are fender

capiche?
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Mar 31 2023 07:42am
Quote (thesnipa @ Mar 31 2023 07:33am)
You just laid out how the intent is different.

i think the easiest hypothetical example is 2 cases of premeditated murder. man A has a cheating wife, he knows the man who's sleeping with his wife, he plans and murders the man. man B hates black people, he plans to kill a black person because he hates them all, drive around until he finds one and murders them. both could be charged as premeditated murder, one knew the victim, the other targeted a member of a group randomly.

the base logic is targeting someone based on their actions, the other is targeting them based on who or what they are. if you sleep with a man's wife that doesnt deserve a death sentence, but you did act and do something. man B's victim was just born black. but both could be charged equally.


What about man C, who hates people who wear funny hats, and plans to kill a funny hat wearing stranger, drives around until he finds one and murders one?

I think the boundary between 'crime of passion' and 'jealous premeditated murder' has already been explored by the courts and may or may not be treated as less heinous than a murder of a stranger. I imagine its gone both ways, either treating it as something which isn't an excuse, or having a jury sympathize with it. Like someone who is in a desperate financial situation and goes out and kills someone in a robbery. They might try to get a jury to understand their crime being motivated by 'necessity', while a prosecutor might denounce it as selfish and valuing property over life and so on. Or someone who is provoked in a bar fight they could have walked away from, versus someone who walks up behind someone in a bar and stabs them in the back.

I think those examples boil down to the heinousness of ambushing a stranger unprovoked, versus killing someone you were already entangled with. And we generally recognize unprovoked crimes against the public at random as being more heinous because they represent a threat to society at large, and we all feel threatened by it. The gunman who opens fire on a crowd seems scarier to us than the gunman who shoots his ex-wife. And that's a distinction made without ideology.
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Mar 31 2023 08:02am
Quote (Goomshill @ Mar 31 2023 08:42am)
What about man C, who hates people who wear funny hats, and plans to kill a funny hat wearing stranger, drives around until he finds one and murders one?

I think the boundary between 'crime of passion' and 'jealous premeditated murder' has already been explored by the courts and may or may not be treated as less heinous than a murder of a stranger. I imagine its gone both ways, either treating it as something which isn't an excuse, or having a jury sympathize with it. Like someone who is in a desperate financial situation and goes out and kills someone in a robbery. They might try to get a jury to understand their crime being motivated by 'necessity', while a prosecutor might denounce it as selfish and valuing property over life and so on. Or someone who is provoked in a bar fight they could have walked away from, versus someone who walks up behind someone in a bar and stabs them in the back.

I think those examples boil down to the heinousness of ambushing a stranger unprovoked, versus killing someone you were already entangled with. And we generally recognize unprovoked crimes against the public at random as being more heinous because they represent a threat to society at large, and we all feel threatened by it. The gunman who opens fire on a crowd seems scarier to us than the gunman who shoots his ex-wife. And that's a distinction made without ideology.


man c's victim chose to wear a funny hat.
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Mar 31 2023 08:15am
Quote (thesnipa @ Mar 31 2023 09:02am)
man c's victim chose to wear a funny hat.


same thing but with guy killing democrats / republicans though
that's where we get into its not a class protected by the civil rights act but its an affiliation protected by the first amendment.


To give an example, the murder of Aaron Danielson by Michael Reinoehl. He laid in wait in a parking garage when the Patriot Prayer caravan drove through town, looking for an opportunity to murder a MAGA chud. Waited until he had an isolated target, then stalked and ambushed him. No prior interaction, just murdering a stranger in cold blood because of ideology. But that's not a hate crime. Now looking back at the founding fathers, I can pretty safely say they prioritized the protection of political expression and affiliation more than the protection of immutable characteristics. I mean, half of them owning black men, and all.
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Mar 31 2023 08:45am
Quote (Goomshill @ Mar 31 2023 09:15am)
same thing but with guy killing democrats / republicans though
that's where we get into its not a class protected by the civil rights act but its an affiliation protected by the first amendment.


To give an example, the murder of Aaron Danielson by Michael Reinoehl. He laid in wait in a parking garage when the Patriot Prayer caravan drove through town, looking for an opportunity to murder a MAGA chud. Waited until he had an isolated target, then stalked and ambushed him. No prior interaction, just murdering a stranger in cold blood because of ideology. But that's not a hate crime. Now looking back at the founding fathers, I can pretty safely say they prioritized the protection of political expression and affiliation more than the protection of immutable characteristics. I mean, half of them owning black men, and all.


sure, but i'd also say killing someone because they're a democrat isn't as bad as killing someone because they're black.

overall like i said initially hate crimes applies to murder are mostly for emotional appeal assuming the person is already serving a life or long haul sentence.
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Mar 31 2023 11:40am
Christians can, of course, be the victim of a hate crime. Hate crime legislation acknowledges the collective harm done by hate-driven crimes, and should continue to prosper.
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Apr 1 2023 07:13am
Quote (Djunior @ Mar 31 2023 05:33am)
Funny that people like you and ^fender are not posting "Just another day in America" topics when the shooter is trans ^_^


A trans shooter? Im glad we're breaking new ground in diversity and inclusion
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Apr 1 2023 07:15am
No. Christians want to be persecuted. Jesus said specifically that they are blessed if get are targeted.

So if you have a hate crime against you as a Christian you should be thanking your attacker

This post was edited by NetflixAdaptationWidow on Apr 1 2023 07:16am
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Apr 1 2023 08:16am
Yes and a lot from the LGBTQ+ community disrespects god everyday but they don't care they are just narcissistic lunatics.

This post was edited by meWW on Apr 1 2023 08:25am
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Apr 1 2023 09:23am
Quote (meWW @ Apr 1 2023 07:16am)
Yes and a lot from the LGBTQ+ community disrespects god everyday but they don't care they are just narcissistic lunatics.


missed a couple letters and a symbol there i believe
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