let me try let me try .......... 'ahem ........ "abiogenesis"

This post was edited by TiStuff on Sep 14 2023 01:52am

I'll respond only because you brought up a valid point compared to your nonsensical circular logic and other garbage you spew.
I want to be fair to those who don't spam drivel.

Anyway
Modern bible is only a cherrypicked version out of more than 66 books. Possibly hundreds here is a bunch that never made it into cannon. I even posted a meme referencing various religious councils who made changes to the bible in post #2963 which is why there are thousands of denominations and even Christians cannot agree amongst themselves. But I doubt you picked that up. Here is a bunch of those books that were removed and changed.

Book of Enoch 1, Book of Enoch 2 / The Secrets of Enoch - ***, and Enoch 3 - #
Book of Esdras 1 and 2
Book of Maccabees 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5
Book of Tobit
Book of Jasher
Book of Judith
Book of Esther — Missing sections
Book of Ecclesiasticus / Sirach
Book of Jubilees
Book of Baruch 1, 2, and 3 - *** (Only Baruch 2 and 3 are pseudepigraphic)
Book of The Shepherd of Hermas
Book of Wisdom / Wisdom of Solomon
Book of The Psalms of Solomon - #
Book of The Odes of Solomon
Book of Giants - #
Book of Adam and Eve 1 and 2 / The Conflict of Adam and Eve with Satan
Gospels

The Gospel of James / The Protevangelion
The Gospel of Peter - ***
The Gospel of Thomas
The Gospel of Nicodemus / Acts of Pilate - #
The Syriac Infancy Gospel / Infancy of Jesus Christ - #
Epistles

The Epistles of Jesus Christ and Abgarus, King of Edessa
The Epistles of Clement
The Epistle of Barnabas
The Epistle of Aristeas - ***
The Epistle of Jeremiah
The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Laodiceans
The Epistles of Paul the Apostle to Seneca
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Philadelphians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrneans
The Epistle of Ignatius to Polycarp
The Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians
The Epistle of Herod to Pilate the Governor
The Epistle of Pilate to Herod
Others — Chapters, pieces, special works

Assumption of Moses - # / ***
Apocalypse of Moses - #
Testament of Abraham - ***
Apocalypse of Abraham - ***
Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs - #
The Acts of Paul - ***
The Acts of Paul and Thecla - #
The Apostles Creed
Psalm 151 — Missing chapter in the Book of Psalms
Story of Susanna — Missing chapter in the Book of Daniel (Chapter 13)
Story of Bel and The Dragon — Missing chapter in the Book of Daniel (Chapter 14)
Story of Ahikar
The Prayer of Azariah and the Songs of the Three Holy Children — Missing piece in Chapter 3 in the Book of Daniel
Prayer of Manasseh — Missing piece in Chapter 33 in the Book of Chronicles 2



Now to address the point about the complexity and why it all seems to flow, have cohesive story and consistency as you say. Simple answer not really most of the books in the bible are written as a theme or a very long novel. . Many of the books are inconsistent, this is why they never made the final cut. The producers (religious people in weird hats) sat around the table and literally decided what to keep and throw away. They meshed the stories together to provide a barely functioning theme. They edited words, paragraphs everything. Without the editing it's relatively inconsistent. On top of that many of the authors are complete unknowns. Could of been written by anyone especially by those with vested interests to make a new religion. Oh wait people have been making up religions for centuries, we have thousands to prove that so there is that.

Ironically there is a clause in the bible telling not to edit the bible.
Deuteronomy 4:2
2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.

You mentioned that the gospels were written by actual eye witnesses. Well since they have no evidence to prove we have to take them at their word. A word from an ancient goat farmer who sacrificed humans and believes in talking snakes isn't credible to me. Another thing to consider is the validity of the authors especially back 2000 years ago. What if I copy someone's work then put my name at the bottom. How would you tell? You have to realise making magical claims and promises is a very lucrative business. Kings and nobles have given the church enormous wealth and fortune. People will make up anything you want for that kind of coin.

And here you thought it was the word of God. At best it's people trying in earnest to imagine what God might sound or think like and putting together some sort of projection in a form of a book. Hate to break it to you but it's not a word of God. Church is a business and the bible is its selling tool. It's full of empty promises and magical claims yet no proof.

This post was edited by addone on Sep 14 2023 02:13am

You don't need to try. By now it's your propensity to lie and make empty claims.
Btw darwin award is yours there wasn't much competition.

Now go and celebrate you earned it big guy.

how about you decide what goes into the book people can carry around



yup u caught me i made up the word "abiogenesis" teehee

So tell me, when you make such a post, why don't you include your references? For all I know you could have grabbed this from Wikipedia. You talk about how many of the books are inconsistent but you haven't shown where they are inconsistent. All you've ever done when Bible verses are quoted is to simply dismiss them without a valid reason. Have you ever read the beginning of Luke's Gospel? His entire account is based on eyewitnesses. The books were composed and put into their particular groups. For example the first 5 books of the Bible is all about the law and the rules God establishes with Israel. You mention this 'barely functioning theme' but can't provide examples?

How do you mean Church is a business? I go to Church and have lots of friends from Church, we bond and organize meetups and we sing, as you well know. No proof? I'm proof of what God is capable of. Whether you believe it or not, I was once just like you. Yet one day I had my "road to Damascus" encounter with Jesus and now here I am spreading the word. My life was completely changed for the better the day I gave my life to Jesus.

All I had to do was to say YES!

This is the Desert Song



This is my prayer in the desert
When all that's within me feels dry
This is my prayer in my hunger and need
My God is the God who provides
And this is my prayer in the fire
In weakness or trial or pain
There is a faith proved of more worth than gold
So refine me Lord through the flame
And I will bring praise, I will bring praise
No weapon formed against me shall remain
I will rejoice, I will declare
God is my victory and He is here
And this is my prayer in the battle
When triumph is still on its way
I am a conqueror and co-heir with Christ
So firm on His promise I'll stand
I will bring praise, I will bring praise
No weapon formed against me shall remain
I will rejoice, I will declare
God is my victory and He is here
All of my life in every season
You are still God
I have a reason to sing
I have a reason to worship
Oh, yeah
All of my life in every season
You are still God
I have a reason to sing
I have a reason to worship
All of my life in every season
You are still God
I have a reason to sing
I have a reason to worship
All of my life in every season
You are still God
I have a reason to sing
I have a reason to worship
I will bring praise, I will bring praise
No weapon formed against me shall remain
I will rejoice, I will declare
God is my victory and He is here
You are Lord
You are here in my heart
And this is my prayer in the harvest
When favour and providence flow
I know I'm filled to be emptied again
The seed I've received I will sow

I mentioned various councils already and some of the books excluded yet clearly they are mentioned in the bible itself. For example books of Enoch

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/council-of-nicaea-concludes
https://www.britannica.com/topic/biblical-literature/The-Book-of-Enoch
https://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/enoch/ENOCH_1.HTM
It goes into fallen angels and nephilim and about the flood. Almost like inspiration material for Diablo games.

It wasn't included because it made many false prophesies. The church didn't want to have their word of God be seen as unreliable so they cut it.
So they made various excuses like it's not divinely inspired which is human judgment. When you can decide what is a word of God based on your own personal opinion that is no longer credible and an admittance that man had created God in their image.

Once you dig a little deeper into how the books were selected you will realise there had been an enormous amount of editing. This alone should put question marks like why couldn't this "god" character just written one book from start to finish why did it have to be stitched together from hundreds of different sources and decided by men what to keep and what to throw away. Bible is a human filter and editing. People have been forging documents and works of others since the beginning of time. The consistency of the Bible can be made to appear by a monkey with a type writer, it's not hard.


It's nice that you have friends in church but so do other cultists. Telling me your personal anecdotes isn't empirical evidence. Why can't you get it through that thick skull? People can claim they were saved or that their lives improved when they started worshipping Satan. People in india can say they were healed and it brought them great sucess when they started worshipping a god with an elephant head and four arms. This is why we have hard evidence it allows us to do away with superstition, feelings, personal opinions and unsupported claims.
It's the bullshit filter.

This post was edited by addone on Sep 14 2023 03:26pm

The term “canon” is used to describe the books that are divinely inspired and therefore belong in the Bible. The difficulty in determining the biblical canon is that the Bible does not give us a list of the books that belong in the Bible. Determining the canon was a process conducted first by Jewish rabbis and scholars and later by early Christians. Ultimately, it was God who decided what books belonged in the biblical canon. A book of Scripture belonged in the canon from the moment God inspired its writing. It was simply a matter of God’s convincing His human followers which books should be included in the Bible.



Compared to the New Testament, there was much less controversy over the canon of the Old Testament. Hebrew believers recognized God’s messengers and accepted their writings as inspired of God. While there was undeniably some debate in regards to the Old Testament canon, by A.D. 250 there was nearly universal agreement on the canon of Hebrew Scripture. The only issue that remained was the Apocrypha, with some debate and discussion continuing today. The vast majority of Hebrew scholars considered the Apocrypha to be good historical and religious documents, but not on the same level as the Hebrew Scriptures.

For the New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament (1 Timothy 5:18; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches (Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John.

The first “canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in AD 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, 1 and 2 Peter, and 3 John. In AD 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with one book of the Apocrypha) and 26 books of the New Testament (everything but Revelation) were canonical and to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (AD 393) and the Council of Carthage (AD 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative.

The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God’s imparting to His followers what He had already decided. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, and despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired.

https://www.gotquestions.org/canon-Bible.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/Muratorian-Canon.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/Council-of-Hippo.html

Looks to me like Ultimately, it was God who decided what books belonged in the biblical canon. I don't doubt there were other books that didn't make it into the Bible but what is written in the Bible is enough for us to see and believe. Even if you were to add more books, what is more there to gain today? Besides you would still throw a hissy fit over the entirety of the Bible being unreliable regardless.

Also, looks like the Christian songs aren't getting through to you so I guess I now need to dumb it down so even you can understand. Let's try kids songs.

God Rock!



God Rock
Get on board the
God Rock
Unbreakable
Unshakeable
God Rock

God Rock
Get on board the
God Rock
Unbreakable
Unshakeable
God Rock

He's the Shield
He's the Saviour
He's a Refuge
And Redeemer

He is Sovereign
He is Holy
He is Yahweh
He is the One and only

God Rock
Get on board the
God Rock
Unbreakable
Unshakeable
God Rock

God Rock
Get on board the
God Rock
Unbreakable
Unshakeable
God Rock

He's the Shield
He's the Saviour
He's a Refuge
And Redeemer

He is Sovereign
He is Holy
He is Yahweh
He is the One and only

He is the Shield
And the Saviour
He's the Refugee
And he's the Redeemer
He is Sovereign
And Holy
He is Yahweh
The One and the Only

God Rock
Get on board the
God Rock
Unbreakable
Unshakeable
God Rock

God Rock
Get on board the
God Rock
Unbreakable
Unshakeable
God Rock

God Rock
Get on board the
God Rock
Unbreakable
Unshakeable
God Rock…….

God Rock
Get on board the
God Rock
Unbreakable
Unshakeable
Completely unmistakable
Get on board
Get on board the
God Rock!

lol good song

Do you ever question what you spew? How did God convince people? Why did he need to convince people in the first place? Why was there so many books written ? Why not just write one book from himself and spare the confusion? Better yet Why is it not obvious? Why does this all powerful God need people to simp for him and convince others with circular reasoning or personal anecdotes? Why can't he simply just say hello here I am God just letting you know I am real. Here is some proof that it was me not a Hindu God or mickey mouse or an alligator God.

When science makes proof or explains how something works it becomes evident. Here is how combustion engine works here is a car it's real you can drive it. There is no magic or personal anecdotes. There is only facts religion only has faith or hope.


Look up various religious councils which literally put together the Cannon. There have been many and to this day they do not all agree proof that there was no concesus on what was considered divinely inspired. It's just people putting together based on their personal opinions. Otherwise God would just say here is my book no debating or arguing.

There is no consensus in the christian community. That's why there thousands of Christian denominations from minor differences to fundamental canonical disagreements.

If it was one God as you claim there would be only one book and only one interpretation. But there isn't.

Don't forget thousands of other religions and thousands of sub religions trying to claim their god is real and their interpretation is true. Christians are simply Judaism 2.0 in a sea of cultists. Confused and scared attribute things they don't understand to a magical being in the sky somewhere.