hmm, I think Obama's authoritarianism has been underappreciated by most of the media and political pundits, but I dont think he was AS authoritarian as you say he was either.


btw, this "isidewith"-site has been updated for the 2020 race, I just took the quiz with the basic questions (3 per category), this was my result:



seems pretty accurate.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 8 2019 12:17am

well, who's been more authoritarian than Obama?
drone strikes, domestic spying, international spying, the ACA, national park declarations, executive orders, guidance memo regulations, title ix, conjuring ACA risk corridor appropriations out of thin air, iran deal, invasion of libya, arab spring meddling, paris deal, daca, dapa, syria, the fake lobbying reform, the broken promises of transparency, crucifying whistleblowers. And it remains to be seen Obama's role in weaponizing the intelligence apparatus against his successor's presidential campaign

Virtually every major policy by Obama in his second term and even a chunk in his first, came from ignoring congress and making unilateral executive actions. And his first term was marked by ideas like the ACA that favored state intervention and direct regulation over either left or right policies like socialist healthcare- it just forced you to buy a product on the market. Now we can debate whether that unilateralism in policy was by necessity or ideological, as he faced republican obstructionism- but the fact was at the end of the day, that's how he acted and he passed up every opportunity for compromise. The drone program was an example of how Obama centralized power in the executive, pulling it away from the more delegated command of his predecessor (and successor) and routing every decision through himself. Obama micromanaged operations and called every shot. Trump came in and delegated that power back to the generals.

Conservatives went after Obama for the stupidest shit, mainly because the really bad shit he did they loved.

you raise some good points, but the patriot act was still the most authoritarian and power-grabbing piece of legislation of the last few decades. and during his first 2 years, obama at least tried to negotiate with congress in good faith. trump, for example, has been operating with a "my way or the highway" stance since the day of his inauguration. his authoritarian tendencies have mostly been kept in check, while obama's were not, but that's because obama was a much more savvy politician than Trump (even though I prefer Trump's policies); and because the press was on obama's side while they constantly try their best to undermine everything trump does.

doesnt change Trump's authoritarian tendencies one bit though - if he could, he'd govern in an extremely autocratic fashion.



lol, you'll have plenty of options to pick from with this democratic field!

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 8 2019 01:07am

I don't think you're giving Trump credit of the myriad executive overreaches he's been rolling back. He's been peeling back policies past where Bush left them let alone Obama, and it mostly flies under the radar and doesn't get much fanfare
Nobody really makes a big deal out of it when Trump issues some EO revoking some other EO and returning power from the federal government to states. Title IX was a blurb in the news for literally 1 day only. Even the most major ones like the Iran Deal don't get talked about anymore. Look at the Waters of the US act- Trump rolled it back further than Bush. The federal government ended the power struggle and ceded those ephemeral wetlands to the states. If Trump was an authoritarian right-winger, he could have kept control over those wetlands and forced them open to mining operations or whatever. Instead its the hands-off approach.

Now just because the press was on Obama's side doesn't make him savvy. History will judge him from a better perspective than you or me now, but my impression in the long game is that all Obama's executive actions to enact his agenda were like building a house on quicksand. Without a stable footing, it was doomed to sink and come crashing down. Everything that one man made unilaterally, one man could unmake unilaterally- and he did. And it only took a couple years. Perhaps Obama's savviness was myopic, he got what he wanted in the short term but nothing stuck. If he had been willing to surrender to republicans in congress and pass a more conservative agenda and not get all the bold policies he wanted, he might have at least scored a partial victory on his platform and made it stick


I can't possibly hope to do a similar analysis of Trump until maybe 10 years from now. I don't know what the cards hold for Trump's agenda in the long run. I just know the methods he's using and the approach he's taking, and its far less authoritarian
but in terms of savviness like political maneuvering to accomplish anything through adversity? Obama did have all the advantages in the world, Trump faced a confederacy of dunces aligned against him. The long term analysis is a measure of his success, the strength through adversity a measure of competency.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Mar 8 2019 01:27am

accurate

No candidates within a country mile. nice.