i actually went to law school, stopped short of being a lawyer but u can save it with the laws are laws horseshit.

i worked with criminals, prison personnel, and police officers professionally for nearly a decade. idiots like this give a bad name to cops by trying to skirt the same laws you're using as a crutch.

whether he is an alleged burglar, innocent of burglary, or guilty of burglary doesnt justify being accosted with open firearms by wannabe rent a cops. even if he was caught red handed with construction materials in his hands this citizens arrest with firearms is an escalation of force and illegal under Georgian law, as i posted earlier in the thread.

lawbreaking wannabe cops deserve to get tossed to the lions, but knowing reality as i do these dumbfucks will get placed in a cell block with pedophiles and bad apple cops away from general population to stop the rape and beatings u think they dont deserve. id rather these idiots get raped than the average kiddy diddler, at least those sickos have trauma to blame for their fucked up perversions. these dumb asses are just hero complex driven vigilantes who now want the law to protect them. they didnt care about the law on that day did they?

i disagree. you bet your ass he understands it perfectly well, he just needs an incentive. if you reversed the skin colours of the parties involved, he'd be the first person writing essays passionately advocating for the murderers to be executed (and rightfully so probably), how that is NOT how citizens arrests / self-defense / responsible gun ownership / any of that works. he'd justifiably call out anyone for suggesting the victim had it coming somehow (of course no one would actually say that if they were white), just because they previously trespassed on a construction site, or because when threatened by two scumbags with guns having fought for his life.

I was being sarcastic, I agree with you.

this mindset misunderstand goom. right and wrong do not factor into his opinions, he has a calculated almost Asperger's approach to legal matters.

we, and by that i mean almost literally every other poster in PARD, put our fingers on the scale, we input right and wrong into our opinions based on gut feel. but when it comes to the law its the law and that's it for Goom. while i disagree almost all of the time its a consistency most people cant dream of keeping. we're all worse people at times based on out biases, and better people at times based on our biases. but if you look at the law, with hindsight, and review his positions he's nearly always right about what the law is and how things will end up. its admirable really, albeit annoying.

If the law is the law to Goom he’d be calling for these guys to be prosecuted to the full extent for breaking several laws, including the illegal escalation.

But he doesn’t actually care. He just wants to find a safe space in the laws for racist, violent fascists to comfortably hide.

admittedly the law isn't 100% clear if you have the legal right to enforce a citizens arrest with guns drawn, it's clear u cant use them but it's not clear if you cant have them out. it's also not clear if they had some sort of knowledge he was involved in a burglary.

I think that they didn't, and I think the facts we have thusfar support that. I also think based on recent Georgian precedent that this wasn't a lawful citizens arrest. however, its not clear they even initiated a citizens arrest. and if you have guns out in a state with open carry and ask to talk to someone it may be legal to then defend yourself if the person charges you. that shouldn't be the law, but it may be the case that it is. I don't think open carrying like this should be legal, nor do I even think citizens arrests should be legal for a nonviolent nonfelony.

perhaps the law will work out and these thugs will be eating knuckle sandwiches in prison soon. perhaps it wont, but the laws will change as a result. or perhaps nothing will happen at all.

If the law was the law to Goom he'd be saying that the devil's in the details and there are facts we know and don't know and once we boil down the incident to what is critical, we are left with an unresolved question that could hypothetically go either way.
We can use what we know to say that if the McMichaels did not assume any criminal liability up to the point of the shooting, that the video and forensics pretty conclusively support their self-defense claim at the moment of the struggle: Arbery initiated the fight, the gun was only fired during the struggle and the evidence indicates it went off because of Arbery pulling on it, and I don't think anyone can doubt that if Arbery gained control of it Travis McMichael would be dead right now. So that leaves us with the question of criminal liability up to the point of the encounter, which is not a black and white issue. It depends on what the McMichaels knew and when, and what previous encounters led up to this, and the interpretations of Georgia's pretty nebulous citizen's arrest laws, and other such questions. Even just today we're getting more confirmed details:
https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/suspects-arbery-shooting-had-earlier-neighborhood-confrontation/HGz6ZaFXYs3pkJhke22x4J/
Just 12 days prior to the shooting, Travis McMichael had witnessed Arbery trespassing at the same construction sites and went to confront him, but got scared away when Arbery appeared to reach for a gun, so he left and returned with his father while armed and Arbery was gone. Which supports what the McMichaels have been saying, that there were recent break-ins and burglaries unreported and possibly the theft of their gun from their front yard that they suspected had been committed by Arbery, and that the surveillance cameras were put up specifically because of him. How does that factor in legally? Its not necessarily a good supporting evidence for them. It can both demonstrate why they'd want to be armed to confront him and why they'd suspect him without witnessing the burglary directly, but it might also chip away at their claim for a valid citizen's arrest in making their suspicion of him less immediate.

I think overall legally, its a pretty weak and strained case to be made for claiming attempting a citizen's arrest on less-than-perfect footing can count as aggravated assault to accommodate felony murder. Its just too tortured a legal pathway to turn lawful conduct into murder by splitting hairs over the minutiae of someone's justification. And its possible such a case could be made, but it might not be a good one in law, I've seen some miscarriages of justice like that in the past and its usually the black guy getting the shaft.


But penis_hat misses one thing, and its that I only take the legal interpretation was one of several lenses to examine the story. Law is law, I can divorce it from the other concerns, but there's also the lens of ethnics, of cultural judgment, of political impact, of potential for inciting riots or revenge. The McMichaels could be innocent in the view of the law but still have made poor and unethical decisions and prove to be complete jackasses. George Zimmerman comes to mind. Or maybe they did nothing wrong at all, but they'll wind up getting railroaded by a biased jury due to cultural pressure and a political crusade that didn't care about the facts. Or maybe they'll get set free after a highly televised spectacle of a trial and riots will break out

This post was edited by Goomshill on May 12 2020 08:47pm

also real talk
what the fuck does $2500 worth of fishing tackle look like?

apparently one of the surveillance videos shows Arbery stealing it out of a boat in a garage during one of the burglaries, but I had to read that a few times because I'm pretty sure everything in my boat down the hill is worth about $50 and the boat itself is worth about $50. If anyone was going to steal something they'd steal the evinrude. For $2500 I'd want a god damned mounted harpoon on a boat that would prevent me from legally docking at neutral peacetime harbors. Not a bunch of redundant lures and reels. That tackle box better have its own built in cooling system, keg and full bar for that kind of price.

This post was edited by Goomshill on May 12 2020 09:17pm

I have a spinning combo worth $2,000, its a shimano stella on a custom made g loomis 6 foot 6-12 lb fast taper, i use it for offshore jigging.
I also have a bunch of lures worth $500 +
A #1 stump jumper can go for more than a new car.

This post was edited by Plaguefear on May 12 2020 10:26pm

The legal system will fail. Vigilante justice is necessary.